FRS vs. MR-S (MR2 Spyder)

[daschtick]

Originally Posted by hmong337

What I do tell people is that I bought it for its future tuning potential and superior handling. The FRS has great amounts of potential

This is where we differ - You want a car with good bones to tune, and I just want a good car. I am really not interested in modifying anything, especially on a brand new car. I figure if I just payed a large sum of cash, I want the car to be 'done', and fully qualified by the manufacturer. I don't want to drive a $30,000 backyard science experiment.

Originally Posted by hmong337

The Mustang you stated still handles like a turd. The Focus is still a wrong wheel drive understeering tragedy. The only thing that increased "performance wise" about those car is that they're now faster in a straight line. Sure they tweaked the suspensions more and progressed them further but that still doesn't cover the fact that they are still sub par performers. They are far from being the top dogs in their segment. I fail to see your point here with those cars.

Whoa there, I wouldn't so blatantly dismiss these cars - it diminishes your credibility! That "turd handling Mustang" has been well documented to be able outperform the BMW M3, even with its solid rear axle, While the "wrong wheel drive understeering tragedy Focus" (not to mention the Fiesta ST) is still faster around the track than the twins. These cars have significantly raised the bar for hot hatch performance. Next you'll be ripping on the new Corvette for antiquated push rods!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Except give any M or AMG car track pads and the brakes won't fade. Tires might overheat from the heft of the car, but you can upgrade the tires as well to fix that.

I'd dispute this...

[WolfpackS2k]

Okay maybe just the M3 and C63 AMG (and black series models). But those are the only ones designed for sporting track driving.:happy0180:

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Okay maybe just the M3 and C63 AMG (and black series models). But those are the only ones designed for sporting track driving.:happy0180:

The last CLS63 I drove had some major brake issues... (and those things are MASSIVE), but yes, it was never really meant for what it was being used for.

Then again, it was an AMG event...

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by daschtick

This is where we differ - You want a car with good bones to tune, and I just want a good car. I am really not interested in modifying anything, especially on a brand new car. I figure if I just payed a large sum of cash, I want the car to be 'done', and fully qualified by the manufacturer. I don't want to drive a $30,000 backyard science experiment.

Then you should go out and get yourself a c5/c6 corvette and be done with it.

Originally Posted by daschtick

Whoa there, I wouldn't so blatantly dismiss these cars - it diminishes your credibility! That "turd handling Mustang" has been well documented to be able outperform the BMW M3, even with its solid rear axle, While the "wrong wheel drive understeering tragedy Focus" (not to mention the Fiesta ST) is still faster around the track than the twins. These cars have significantly raised the bar for hot hatch performance. Next you'll be ripping on the new Corvette for antiquated push rods!

Though the new Mustang turned in equal to slightly better laptimes to the M3, it does not negate the fact that it's still a boat to drive. Not confident inspiring. I'm willing to throw down money that the average joe would be able to drive the m3 faster around a track than the stang. The ST is definitely faster out of the box as seen by tests. But that still doesn't mean it's a better driving car. Not to mention, being a front wheel squeeler it will never come close to ultimate race car potential like the gt86.

Let's not sway from the original topic and keep this an MR-S vs FRS/BRZ thing.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by hmong337

Then you should go out and get yourself a c5/c6 corvette and be done with it.




Though the new Mustang turned in equal to slightly better laptimes to the M3, it does not negate the fact that it's still a boat to drive. Not confident inspiring. I'm willing to throw down money that the average joe would be able to drive the m3 faster around a track than the stang. The ST is definitely faster out of the box as seen by tests. But that still doesn't mean it's a better driving car. Not to mention, being a front wheel squeeler it will never come close to ultimate race car potential like the gt86.

Let's not sway from the original topic and keep this an MR-S vs FRS/BRZ thing.

I actually think an average joe can take a mustang around the track faster than a M3.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by hmong337

Though the new Mustang turned in equal to slightly better laptimes to the M3, it does not negate the fact that it's still a boat to drive. Not confident inspiring. I'm willing to throw down money that the average joe would be able to drive the m3 faster around a track than the stang. The ST is definitely faster out of the box as seen by tests. But that still doesn't mean it's a better driving car. Not to mention, being a front wheel squeeler it will never come close to ultimate race car potential like the gt86.

Let's not sway from the original topic and keep this an MR-S vs FRS/BRZ thing.

It was the Laguna Seca Boss 302 edition Mustang that equaled an M3 around Laguna Seca. And I don't know why you're calling the Mustang GT a boat, since its weight is basically identical to the M3's.

[CSG Mike]

They're all boats compared to the MRS/MR2/BRZ/FRS

[autobrz]

fwd can be very fast race cars too. just look up top setup eg6. i dont know why ppl who dnt race bench race.. its not like ur going to drive fast enough for a lot of things to matter

[autobrz]

aren't the twins "feel" cars that are slow? lol... well the mr-s is also a feel car and with a 2zz it's got some satisfactory speed for most folks but it really is a light car. The feeling of driving the mr-s cannot be duplicated in the brz. it's just not possible with 500lb more weight.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by autobrz

aren't the twins "feel" cars that are slow? lol... well the mr-s is also a feel car and with a 2zz it's got some satisfactory speed for most folks but it really is a light car. The feeling of driving the mr-s cannot be duplicated in the brz. it's just not possible with 500lb more weight.

Well you can't really "feel" weight, if the car gets jostled around more that is more a suspension/chassis thing.

Oh yea, one more thing I might add to this thread, the 2ZZ has less emissions controls than a 1ZZ and I think some people are having trouble passing tailpipe sniffer smog with it because it's so bad with emissions. It's a car showing its age, they need to push out a new MR2!

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Well you can't really "feel" weight, if the car gets jostled around more that is more a suspension/chassis thing.

Oh yea, one more thing I might add to this thread, the 2ZZ has less emissions controls than a 1ZZ and I think some people are having trouble passing tailpipe sniffer smog with it because it's so bad with emissions. It's a car showing its age, they need to push out a new MR2!

If you put a stock cat on it then it will pass easily but it kills the power. Mine passed with a Hi-flow cat and a stock 2000 Celica ECU.

[autobrz]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Well you can't really "feel" weight, if the car gets jostled around more that is more a suspension/chassis thing.

I disagree. I can definitely feel weight via responsiveness although it may not be completely accurate. Rubber bushings and all the slack in the suspension + tire flexibility contributes to a car's response as much as springs + dampers. A lighter car will not deform its bushings as much before the car follows the steering or throttle input. If we're talking about solid pillow ball mounts and race tires then it is harder to feel weight.

[regal]

Originally Posted by autobrz

I disagree. I can definitely feel weight via responsiveness although it may not be completely accurate. Rubber bushings and all the slack in the suspension + tire flexibility contributes to a car's response as much as springs + dampers. A lighter car will not deform its bushings as much before the car follows the steering or throttle input. If we're talking about solid pillow ball mounts and race tires then it is harder to feel weight.

A lot of it depends on the geography where you live. I grew up on flat all straight roads of the cornfield Midwest. My old man sold me an E30 BMW as a hand me down. I thought it sucked and bought a muscle car (turbo regal) wen I got a job. Loved it on those straight rural roads.

Then I moved to the foot hills of the appalachians. A light bulb went off, man I wished I'd have kept that E30 BMW. The FR-S is nice on these roads, but even it is a little too heavy compared to all the Miatas and MR-S's around here..

A new M3 or a Mustang just wouldn't work, you absolutely can't toss around the extra 1/4 to 1/2 ton of weight. On these road you really notice a cars overall weight more than the hp/weight ratio.