Suggestions for separating trans from the block

[EndlessAzure]

Originally Posted by twistednoble

Going back together. I rode up to the dealer and picked up a spring clip and a new MLS gasket for the front pipe yesterday then spent the rest of the day thawing out. I did go out and get the new fork and TOB installed in the bellhousing. I drove out the corroded pins from the trans, hit them with a wire wheel and then smacked them back into the engine with a coating of antisieze. Looking back this may have been a mistake as I drove them out the front of the bellhousing and didn't think to try and clean the corrosion residue out of the holes on the trans.

Fast forward to today and things actually went pretty well at first. I heaved the sucker back up onto the jack and then popped it back up on the swaybar and back on the lower studs. A little wiggling and she shot right back through the clutch. I know I made it that far since I popped the trans into gear and could no longer spin the tailshaft. Right about here is where I ran into difficulties again. It really did not want to ride on both dowels at once. I suspect I either drove them in slightly offkilter or the remaining corrosion in the holes made it a challenge. I did the dance raising and lowering both jacks to make sure things were lined up but with no luck. Next step was putting in two of the lower bolts (by hand only) and flopping the trans around to try and work it down. This worked pretty well, I would work it back and forth and it would allow me to turn the bolts (by hand still) to gain a little bit at a time. Eventually it got to the point where I couldn't gain any more ground and I got out the wrench to start working things back and forth a little bit at a time. I also put in the top two bolts (and a ton of washers on the RHS to make a faux starter flange) to assist in keeping the gap even on all sides. I worked one turn at a time on each bolt and didn't force anything if it got tight.

I say that the RHS dowel pin was the problem since the LHS was much easier to draw down (to the point that I backed them off a couple times to keep the remaining gap even) and as I worked it down evenly I would get little puffs of red dust from the backside of the RHS pin hole from time to time.

Now that I've explained my sin...
What potential damage could I have caused by doing it this way and what are the symptoms? My primary concern is if the tip of the input shaft was in the pilot bearing or not by the time that the face of the trans is resting on the dowels. That's the only thing I think I really risked damaging doing this method.

I called it a night after wrasslin'/bench-pressing the trans for about five hours and countless up-downs to tighten the top and lower bolts evenly my arms were dead. I've got a tiny gap left between bellhousing and block and then I'll torque the bolts to spec and put the rest of the car back together pending any disasters or prophecies of doom from y'all.

I also need to clean and paint the front lower subframe braces before I put the skidplate back on. The paint's flaked off the welds and they're pretty red from the salty winter roads. They're probably gonna end up white since I don't have any black paint handy. It'll also give me a chance to lube the poly bushings on the front bar. That should hopefully address the pop I hear from the front left when I turn almost to lock or turn on an off-camber road.

You would be hard pressed to do any real damage to the dowel pins. That's what they are for, to bear the alignment load

Using the housing bolts and wrenching them down is a no-no. It will take a bit of wiggle and proper alignment, but the housing should come together with the engine by hand. If you torqued down the transmission with the bolts without pushing together the assemblies by hand, you could essentially press out the pilot bearing. Not sure how to inform that, but there shouldn't be resistance when doing up the bolts. If you're confident with how you put it together, then it should be fine

[twistednoble]

Originally Posted by EndlessAzure

You would be hard pressed to do any real damage to the dowel pins. That's what they are for, to bear the alignment load

Using the housing bolts and wrenching them down is a no-no. It will take a bit of wiggle and proper alignment, but the housing should come together with the engine by hand. If you torqued down the transmission with the bolts without pushing together the assemblies by hand, you could essentially press out the pilot bearing. Not sure how to inform that, but there shouldn't be resistance when doing up the bolts. If you're confident with how you put it together, then it should be fine

That's what I was afraid of hearing. Going to the bolts was my last resort after about of an hour and a half of screwing with the jacks and eventually just man handling the trans to try and get it to go on both dowels. Does it really just slam home onto the block pretty easily once both pins are in?

The reason I was blaming the dowels was that if I was pressing the pilot bearing into the flywheel further I would expect that the trans would be easy to back off when I let the bolts out some. This was not the case, it only really moved easily on the left side but not the right.

Ah man I really don't want to have to do this again.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by twistednoble

Ah man I really don't want to have to do this again.

Patience, Grasshopper.

Likely the friction disc isn't centered closely enough. It can be a pain. Drop the trans and double check alignment with your tool inserted in a few different angles. If it seems to bind even slightly, loosen pressure plate and do over.

You'll get it!

[twistednoble]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Patience, Grasshopper.

Likely the friction disc isn't centered closely enough. It can be a pain. Drop the trans and double check alignment with your tool inserted in a few different angles. If it seems to bind even slightly, loosen pressure plate and do over.

You'll get it!

Is that a yes on it should shoot down the dowels with little resistance?

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by twistednoble

Is that a yes on it should shoot down the dowels with little resistance?

Oh, sorry... yes, it should.

[twistednoble]

I don't mean to be high and mighty but...

HAHA! I WAS RIGHT!

Big breath of relief all around.

Pulled the bolts, backed it out once again the right side being the sticking point. Shined a light down in the splines and the pilot bearing is still flush with the surface of the flywheel. Once again all my troubles are indeed because of those corroded dowel pins and pin holes. Seems like getting them clean does not also restore the hole to the original tolerance so I'm fighting that corrosion back into the hole.

Seems like I'm one of those unfortunate fringe cases where everything is harder than it should be.

Should anyone else stumble on this having the same problem I do not endorse doing it this way unless you have exhausted all other options. I would even try running a metal pipe brush through the pin holes on the trans to try and clear things out (didn't have one and the hardware store is 18mi away). Like I said, I did not start wrenching away on it as soon as I couldn't get it; I started working it down back and forth by hand and tightening the bolts by hand making absolutely sure that the gap stayed even all the way around the bellhousing.

[twistednoble]

Going to doublecheck alignment and then put it back on. Hopefully with the hole cleaned out it will shoot down the dowels this time.

[twistednoble]

Originally Posted by twistednoble

Oh yea, this was a job I was expecting to be moderately difficult so I slated two days on it, and in typical fashion of car maintenance jobs I havent done before it's become a four day ordeal and its not even on the ground yet, lol.

First sticking point was that I didn't have a long enough wrench to motivate the diff nuts, then it was the stuck bellhousing, we'll see what else decides to rear it's head.

Hopefully it's smooth sailing soon. I'm getting tired of riding my VFR in 30F degree weather.

Truly, an ongoing debacle.

It's all back together, plugged in, and full of oil, but now she doesn't want to start. It was full dead for a bit but then I had it catch and almost take off. I suspect that removing the battery power and clearing the ECM temp memory really pissed off the OFT E85 tune. The massive temp swings probably aren't helping any.

I'm gonna reflash the ECU with the E85 tune tomorrow and see if that gets me anywhere.

[dragoontwo]

Did you put the trigger plate in correctly?

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129846

[twistednoble]

Originally Posted by dragoontwo

Did you put the trigger plate in correctly?

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129846

I did, there was a little bit of engine oil on the back of the plate. That helped me identify which direction it was supposed to go; teeth toward engine.

[twistednoble]

I need crank, no start, no code ideas now. I reflashed but I'm still not having the engine catch and run. It will sometimes run just a little bit but it won't rev up to a cold idle and the starter seems to be keeping it going.

It's got E85 in the tank and it's relatively fresh, I refilled about two weeks ago. I can smell fuel after it cranks for a while (the signal to give up and let it sit) so I know injectors are flowing at least.

I gave the connectors a second going over and everything is correctly plugged in.

Not sure if flashing to a stage 1 tune would help me any here. I've got a buddy coming with a battery charger since I've cranked it about dead. Ether maybe? I've never had it be this much of a cold bitch especially since it's about 52F out and it never gives me trouble above 36F.

[EndlessAzure]

Originally Posted by twistednoble

I did, there was a little bit of engine oil on the back of the plate. That helped me identify which direction it was supposed to go; teeth toward engine.

Not just the teeth. It's keyed to fit in only one clocking.

[twistednoble]

Originally Posted by EndlessAzure

Not just the teeth. It's keyed to fit in only one clocking.

How is that key anchored in the crank? Is it fixed in one spot and the hole is blind or can it be shoved through the crank to make the trigger wheel flush? I'm looking through iRacer's build thread and I do not recall that pin being in place or the extra hole in the plate and I definitely would have noticed them. I feel like I'm going crazy.

Wouldn't it being misaligned result in a P0335 error like Khrono had? Or if I had really jacked up the timing plate shouldn't it be panicking and throwing a P0016 since it would appear to the ECM that the crank is out of alignment?

Definitely a valid concern but the reason I don't jump to agree is that I have no codes and the engine is literally on the cusp of starting most of the time. It acts identically to when I'm working out of a hotel in 10 degree weather and trying to start the car with a tank full of e85 leading me to immediately think "tune problem".

[Ultramaroon]

Relevant page from the service manual. There's a single alignment pin in the crankshaft.

https://gt86stuff.onrender.com/t3Por...041LF007X.html