Wheel dilemma

[Discosandman]

I've been vigorously researching wheels and what all the numbers mean over the course of the last few days and I think I have a good understanding of everything. However, I'm still stuck. I know stock specs are sumlike 215/45/17 with 17x7 +48(or 53, still not sure). Yet I still see people running 18x8.5 or x9 and I wonder how people can get away with adding all that size to the car. I was looking at some 17x8 wheels with like a +30-35 offset but now that I see everyone running these wide wheels, it has me second-guessing my judgment. Can anybody offer insight as to why some people choose to go so wide without a widebody kit? Is there any merit to it? Isn't it dangerous to have wheels that wide that come so close to the inside of the wheel well? Any help would be appreciated.

[churchx]

Those that install very wide wheels:
1) might do so because installed forced induction, for more grip. But majority twins out there most probably are and will stay NA.
2) for max grip, everything else aside, in auto-x. For hpde some reported better results with less wide wheels
3) most probable reason they add max wide they can fit, because they somewhere got this thought (maybe because many supercars have wide wheels, so due that might be some wannabe ricer thing, to fit on budget car with alike ones), that for whatever reasons it supposedly should be cool. I don't get it, as find it hard to imagine that someone actively leans/looks under parked cars to see what tire/wheel widths they have, or checks up/looks & actually cares for widths for cars driving in front of them.

In general, especially if your car will stay at NA power and if you care to not fsck up handling, don't go for max wide wheels you can fit, also don't install staggered setup (wider rear then front) which is another common mistake to do.
Or if you need more grip, then be reasonable and go upto x8 and 225 width tires. Tire compound of some grippier tire type matters more then it's width anyway.
This way you'll keep wheel & tire weights reasonable, will pay less for tires, car will be less susceptible to aquaplaning, and car will keep it's playfulness even at stock (lack of) power and at still legal speeds instead of like on rails. It may also accelerate slightly better on lighter wheels/tires then on big heavy "barrels". And by not going staggered again you won't make car understeering pig, or won't need parts to counter staggered ill-effects, be able to rotate tires for more even wear/longer mileage from set of tires, and it's easier to buy replacement for damaged wheel or punctured tire or find buyers when selling used set if it's square, instead of staggered width.

They are weird bunch of people, even buying coilovers for no other purpose but enable even wider wheel fitment then vs stock large diameter springs. But to each his own, everyone is free to pay own money to make his own car worse .

[why?]

Most that install gigantic wheels care only about the looks.

For autocross it seems the size to go for is 17x8 or 17x9, depending on how much power you are making.

If you are not competing then sticking to the stock size or maybe thinner and getting the best tire compound you can afford is the best bet.

[Slammillionaire]

Originally Posted by why?

Most that install gigantic wheels care only about the looks.

And that's OK!

[churchx]

Slammilionaire: It's just that i love handling of twins and love getting that much driving fun for that cheap. Thus find it hard to understand ones that for sake of arguable looks (really, how many people DO look how wide tires cars have? and how many CARE/think it's cool instead of smirking on noticing ricer tuning?) compromise that handling while paying a lot. Imho these cars deserve better and investment is better spent on something actually improving handling/power/performance/comfort, not arguable looks bit.
I prefer seeing function valued over form, especially if that form is .. meh.
P.S.
It's not that i'm against wheel change/upgrade in general. Many aftermarket wheels do look better then stock, may be even better functional wise (eg. lighter), reasonable sway from stock sizing doesn't cause much ill effects. It's ultra-wide width & staggered size choice bits that i don't get.

[8RZ]

I'm not a serious racer, occasional autox but mostly a daily driver. I went with 18x8 and 18x9.5 for purely aesthetic reasons. I noticed improved traction and grip from spirited city driving compared to the stock setup so I'm very happy.

[venturaII]

If you're sticking with a 215 or 225 tire, you can safely continue to use a 7 in wide wheel and not leave much on the table in terms of performance. If you're planning on running 235 or 245, an 8 in wide wheel would be a better bet, and if you're looking for max grip with a 255, a 9 in wheel would be the best choice. Choose offset based on wheel width and amount of camber you plan to run, which in turn is affected by whether you're running OEM-type struts, or smaller diameter coilovers. Decide what size tire you want based on your intended use, and then select wheel size appropriately.

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by Discosandman

I've been vigorously researching wheels and what all the numbers mean over the course of the last few days and I think I have a good understanding of everything. However, I'm still stuck. I know stock specs are sumlike 215/45/17 with 17x7 +48(or 53, still not sure). Yet I still see people running 18x8.5 or x9 and I wonder how people can get away with adding all that size to the car. I was looking at some 17x8 wheels with like a +30-35 offset but now that I see everyone running these wide wheels, it has me second-guessing my judgment. Can anybody offer insight as to why some people choose to go so wide without a widebody kit? Is there any merit to it? Isn't it dangerous to have wheels that wide that come so close to the inside of the wheel well? Any help would be appreciated.

It's a combination of things. Done properly, it certainly won't ruin the car. Take my current setup, for example. I have three sets of wheels:

1. The stock 17x7 STi wheels that came with the car are now used for winter duty. They use stock-sized General Altimax Arctics. I've no interest in a lower-profile, nor a wider, winter tire, as those would both be detrimental to their intended use. A wider winter tire rides up on snow, rather than cutting through it, and as you can see below, deeper snow is something I'm well-accustomed to in the winter here in Chicago. A fatter sidewall helps absorb impacts from hidden potholes or curbs or other things you can't see in the snow. The OEM size also keeps the costs down. They work well in the winter.



2. In the summer, I have a set of 18x9 HRE FF15s. These are wrapped in 255/35 Michelin Pilot Super Sports. A lot of what follows is personal preference, but here's where I came from: I LOVED the style of these wheels when I saw them. I don't like brighter-colored 18" wheels on our cars as I feel they look too big, but darker-colored ones blend in with the wheel a bit better, and it mutes their size and I think they wind up looking perfect. I would have liked an 8" wide wheel, but the narrowest size they made was 9". I don't mind the look that the added width gives, as it gives the car a wider, lower stance, but I was worried it might be too much tire for the car. I was assured by some friends that this would not be the case, so I went with it, and got the 255 MPSS. Turns out, it's absolutely NOT too wide of a tire. The rear can still move around, and kick out if you're aggressive with it. It isn't as progressive when it lets go, but it can still do so. However, I'm more of a grip kind of guy, and wide tires like these means TONS of grip, which means highway entrance ramps are an absolute riot

Wheel weight was also a concern. On a light sports car which is all about handling, you don't want to add unnecessary weight - especially unsprung, rotational mass. However, a NICE set of wheels won't do that. These 18x9 wheels are LIGHTER than the standard 17x7 wheels most Twins come with. The tires are heavier, so overall it was a slight increase in mass, but nothing significant, and nothing that mattered much for daily driving use. The MPSS are also fantastic in the rain, so I can do 70-80 MPH in torrential downpours without hydroplaning, even with the much wider tires.

Rubbing is something you have to be careful about. It's part of the reason why I wanted a slightly narrower wheel. My offset is +40, and at stock height, I had no rubbing issues. Once I lowered the car, and added 2.5 degrees of camber up front, I ran into some very minor rubbing issues at full lock. To resolve this, I used some tiny nylon spacers - one on each side of the steering rack - to very slightly reduce maximum steering lock of the car (adds about 1.5 feet to the turning radius). That resolved my rubbing issues, so I no longer have any problems at all with that setup.

Ride comfort was made slightly worse by the thinner tires, in the sense that harder impacts are a bit harsher, but I have very comfy coilovers so the ride quality is still similar to OEM. I also love the added precision and turn-in response that a narrower sidewall provides in daily driving.



3. For autocross, I use 17x9 949Racing 6ULs. These are wrapped in 245/40 RE71Rs. Note the slightly narrower tire profile. I chose this width because this is what people have determined to be the optimal compromise between outright grip, and agility and drag on course. Too wide of a tire and you start to loose precision in the steering, and you can also slow the car down with too much rubber on the road. Most people were running 245 in STX, so that's what I went with. Anything narrower simply isn't enough tire to be competitive; you need that grip. 255s would probably still be competitive, but most people found it wasn't worth the added cost, or slight reduction in steering feel.

As far as why it's a 17", rather than an 18" wheel. Whereas for my DD wheels, I wanted to balance looks with performance, here it's all about speed and handling. Sure you gain a bit of initial turn-in response if you go with a taller wheel and a shorter tire sidewall, but it was again something people had found wasn't worth the added weight and costs that would be involved. Sticking with a 17" wheel means I shave a few pounds off of both the wheel and tire, and save a considerable amount of money.



Hopefully that answers some of your questions

[Leonardo]

I have had several sets of wheels. I'm currently running 18x8 +45 & 18x9 +42 wheels with 225/40 & 245/35 MPSS. I like how it drives. I have had 4 different square tire setups before going staggered. I like the 225/40 in the front. The steering feels light again.

[why?]

Originally Posted by Slammillionaire

And that's OK!

If it is a trailer queen or a show car, sure it is fine. For a daily driver or any type of competition, the added weight and extra cost of the tires is a massive drawback.

But people can do what they want to, it is much more fun that way for all of us.