Vacci-Nation [CLOSED DUE TO DISRESPECTFUL, INSULTING, POLITICAL POSTS

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by TommyW

interesting though how people seem to get sick on planes. Maybe there are different types of filters.

Good article explaining aircraft cabin ventilation in the context of virus transmission. Tldr, 60% of air from the vents comes from outside the aircraft where 40% is recycled through filters to be recirculated. The air flow has a single circuit through the cabin, flowing top to bottom and is completely refreshed every 3 minutes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/api.nat...oronavirus-cvd

People usually get sick from the airport where ventilation is less ideal and you are constantly moving through a space someone else just moved through and touched.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by TommyW

What’s your take on allowing corporate stores like Costco etc to prosper while shutting down small businesses?
Or social distancing in airports then being elbow to elbow on the plane 10 minutes later?

I would love to hear from all of you? This will be interesting

Which small businesses are you referring to? Maybe you should review the current mandates below. Many of the ones you think are closed might still be open with certain restrictions like a restaurant may be open for delivery or open for outdoor dining or even indoor dining. It depends on the area.

https://covid19.ca.gov/industry-guidance/

People accept a certain amount of risk when going on planes. People should be mandated to wear masks at all times. Families can cohort together, but there should be a space between strangers. A negative COVID test performed within the last 48 hours should be necessary to fly. Frankly, they should do a basic antigen test right then and there.

[soundman98]

does anyone else see what's going on here? dude's dumping a clip-load of questions and then running for the hills...

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by soundman98

does anyone else see what's going on here? dude's dumping a clip-load of questions and then running for the hills...

Yep, it's a common tactic for people who don't really know what they are talking about but want to tell you how right they are rather than take it as a learning experience.

Disclaimer, I may or may not be that guy from time to time lol...

[soundman98]

i'm not opposed to being that guy, or entertaining that guy from time to time, but this thread really ain't the place for that. this is more serious.

if you want to have fun, there's automatic car washes and aftermarket wheels.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by soundman98

i'm not opposed to being that guy, or entertaining that guy from time to time, but this thread really ain't the place for that. this is more serious.

if you want to have fun, there's automatic car washes and aftermarket wheels.

I give people at least two rounds before I call them out on it or ignore them. Suspicion of troll doesn't mean I shouldn't take their questions seriously.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Spuds

I give people at least two rounds before I call them out on it or ignore them. Suspicion of troll doesn't mean I shouldn't take their questions seriously.

I think there is a difference between trolling and just ignorance. I tend to be fine with both. I’m fairly patient and enjoy a good debate if there is enough intellectual honesty. Even when someone is clearly trolling to elicit an emotional response, the rules of logic confine my responses to advance an argument that is both sound and valid (I just watched Star Trek - First Contact...hence the Vulcan response).

On the other hand, many people who may seem like they are trolling may actually not be trolling. Some are willfully or accidentally ignorant. Some live in their echo chambers, so their questions seem more obvious, but like a fish out of water or someone facing culture shock, they have yet to be exposed to a point of view that is not in their narrow spectrum. Then again, sometimes people just aren’t that bright or are intellectually lazy.

[dpfarr]

It is a disparate experience for a lot of us. Most people I know who died are twice removed. Neither my wife nor I have had any income hardships.

Whether the actions and ideas I take are statistically supported should not override the misery so many are acting on through actual covid infections or economic hardship. I try to keep that perspective when I hear people complaining about gov over reach in shutting down businesses that might be transmission and acquisition hot spots. This all sucks. It might suck more for the next dude and letting him air his might all that needs be done.

However, the next dude or myself also might be a bigger asshole than yourself. So GTFO and all…

[Dadhawk]

Well, its been 24+ hours since I got my second vaccine dose. The injection point is sore, but not as much as with the first. I don't believe I've had any other reactions.

Of course, that in itself concerns me. I was expecting a little reaction to it.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by TommyW

you're joking, right?

Originally Posted by Spuds

I think it's more extreme than just requiring masks and distancing of course. It's more an alternative argument to proactive mandates for mask wearing and distancing than an actual suggestion. It is already illegal to kill somebody through reckless acts, such as driving drunk or pushing them down some stairs. The novel part is just saying that not following pandemic precautions that we all know about is a reckless act. That way we are free to do whatever, but will suffer consequences if we kill somebody without taking appropriate precautions.

People have been convicted of attempted murder in cases where they knowingly spread a potentially deadly disease. The one that comes to mind is AIDS where someone infected knowingly having unprotected sex without informing their partner resulted in charges.

Of course, "knowingly" is the key. If you know you are infected with COVID and then knowingly put others at risk, I could see that happening.

If you just aren't following mandates then you would be subject to whatever punitive damages are built into the mandate.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by TommyW

interesting though how people seem to get sick on planes. Maybe there are different types of filters.

I'm not a medical HVAC engineer, but from the studies out there it seems the risk of infection while flying comes from several areas. First it's while being in the airport, boarding gates, etc. where large numbers of people gather.

Second, even though planes may have HVAC filters, the problem is inhalation of viral particles before they reach a filter and can be filtered out. This article describes studies at Purdue University showing how particles can spread on a plane, and reach people before they are drawn into a filter:

https://www.businessinsider.com/vide...navirus-2020-4

https://www.businessinsider.com/evid...flights-2020-9

Airflow within a confined space has a great deal to do with the risk of infection, and how far viral particles may travel. We keep hearing about '6 feet of social distancing', but there's nothing necessarily magical about about 6 feet of distance. SARS-CoV-2 particles don't magically drop dead after traveling 6 feet. Infection can be spread over much longer distances.

A recent study showed that infection can happen in a restaurant with just 5 minutes of exposure and at a distance of 20 feet from an infected person:

https://jkms.org/DOIx.php?id=10.3346/jkms.2020.35.e415

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...g-for-covid-19

The bottom line is, people gathering in enclosed spaces is a recipe for infection. It's as simple as that. Masks help a great deal, but they're not perfect. The more time a person spends on a plane, the greater the risk of becoming infected.

[Captain Snooze]

"In one of her Twitter posts, she says “post-covid lungs look worse than any type of terrible smokers lung we’ve ever seen.”
“Everyone’s just so worried about the mortality thing and that’s terrible and it’s awful. But man, and all the survivors and the people who have tested positive this is, it’s going to be a problem,” Dr. Bankhead-Kendall said."





Source

[Ultramaroon]

Looks like it causes scoliosis too. Yikes!

[wbradley]

Sorry for jumping into this thread but for those that have argued that the efforts should have been focused on keeping the vulnerable out of the line of fire (lock them up!) and letting the rest of the hopefully 95% of the population continue on with commerce, lifestyle etc. I'd like to relate a scenario.

Firstly, acknowledge that any significant percentage of the population that wants as little disruption to their daily activity will keep propagating transmission among the so-called less vulnerable majority population until everyone is infected. There will be a certain number of unexpected fatalities and quality of life harm done. And with propagation of the virus, far greater likelihood of further mutation of the virus, possibly creating a variant without vaccine effectiveness.

Vulnerable people in care facilities require outside assistance, and individual needs vary. For example, my father stayed in his room as per lockdown but needed someone to ensure he was taking insulin and meds daily. He also had someone help him shower several times per week. His meals were delivered to his room.
He still became infected some time between Dec 23 and 26. The symptoms were intense by Dec 29 when he was taken to hospital.

The infection comes from outside and spread to my father by the people that assisted him. Whether they changed PPE appropriately from person to person or not, knowing there was an outbreak, whether people that worked in these facilities were exposed by the huge percentage of the population that admitted to not following protocols during the holidays. Or, buying Christmas gifts in the mall because it is open, and inadvertently picking up the virus and bringing it into work as a result of others spreading the virus.

So if you will ONLY protect the people that are vulnerable then you are required to protect the people that care for the vulnerable too. And these people go home at the end of their workdays. Even if they are the most compassionate and caring and careful people, there is no protection for them, therefore no real protection for the vulnerable. They have families, travel on public transit, have room mates. How do you stop it?

It is far far better to extinguish the virus wherever possible than allow it to smolder forever.

Somehow, somewhere somebody became too casual in the chain of protection for my dad and for that reason we buried him yesterday.

Note: even though he was old, he wasn't sick before the pandemic. Yes the lockdown and inability to see family and move freely affected him terribly, but in the end we were unable to protect him from Covid19.

I have heard that argument to lock up the old before. Ironically from a friend of mine that loved Trump. Not common among Canadians. Sorry if you own a business that will become insolvent as a result and how does that compare to becoming...dead?

I have seen several people in public indoor spaces with their noses above their masks. I trust nobody.