HPDE: Where, When and Who With?

[PMok]

also, my next track day:

7/23 Thunderhill West with SpeedSF

[Kostamojen]

All packed and ready.

One last question... Should I fill out the Waiver and Tech inspection before hand or at the track? I have it all printed up with a pen ready to go, so either way works, just curious when people actually do it.

[overlookedx]

Originally Posted by PMok

also, my next track day:

7/23 Thunderhill West with SpeedSF

Looking forward to it, sorta. Dreading how hot it will be.

[AyJay]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

All packed and ready.

One last question... Should I fill out the Waiver and Tech inspection before hand or at the track? I have it all printed up with a pen ready to go, so either way works, just curious when people actually do it.

You can do it before hand or on site. You just gotta hand it in in order to get a sticker for your windshields which tells the course workers you're good to go.


See you out there tomorrow.

[hpde_addict]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

All packed and ready.

One last question... Should I fill out the Waiver and Tech inspection before hand or at the track? I have it all printed up with a pen ready to go, so either way works, just curious when people actually do it.

Just don't sign them until you have a staff member to watch at registration.

[lamune]

Originally Posted by PMok

also, my next track day:

7/23 Thunderhill West with SpeedSF

Just registered with speedsf. See you there!

[Kostamojen]

So this was my first track event since 2002, the July 2nd event at Thunderhill West with SpeedSF. I've done probably 50 autox events since then, so my skills have improved, but the interesting thing was getting back onto the track was like riding a bike... Within a lap or two I remembered exactly what its like

Great event btw, run REALLY well. Nice mix of casual/relaxed but with a small bit of competitive racing going on for the SpeedSF cup. Even with the hot temps, everything went pretty smoothly.

Anyway, I'm really happy with the car, my suspension work has paid off with a car that is very neutral. Doesn't plow understeer and doesn't snap understeer, it just goes. I could use more camber in some corners with camber plates, but I found the loss in ride quality for daily driving wasnt worth it so I'm sticking with Group-N tophats.

The RR Racing brake kit works very well, minus the brake noise with the BP-20's. I could out-brake everything out there especially with the RE71R's, which are just as AMAZING on the track as they are at autox! Ambient temp was around 95 degrees.

I recorded Torque app with Track Recorder, but it didnt work on my new phone for exporting, I did check my coolant/oil temps and saw that my oil temps did just fine with the Forester/WRX oil cooler I use (~250 max) but my coolant temps got quite hot to around 210-215. Probably need a larger radiator for sure.

Power wise, I was VERY disappointed... So much so I'm contemplating buying a much much faster car. EVERYTHING pulled away out of corners and in straights, even the Focus ST I followed for awhile. I have been contemplating a Edelbrock or Harrop Supercharger, but tearing into the motor is something I'm very hesitant to do.

Anyway...

SORRY about the crappy vids... I tried a new mount with my new phone and it was awful. I use the Torque Recorder with the Torque PRO app and normally it works great, this time it was crap Going to have to try something else...

Run 1

[ame]http://youtu.be/zeAWxnCzRBk[/ame]

Run 2

[ame]http://youtu.be/8YqWK16JGHw[/ame]

Run 3

[ame]http://youtu.be/aQ_wTgdMwJA[/ame]

Couple pics as well:

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

I have been contemplating a Edelbrock or Harrop Supercharger, but tearing into the motor is something I'm very hesitant to do.

[overlookedx]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

Power wise, I was VERY disappointed... So much so I'm contemplating buying a much much faster car. EVERYTHING pulled away out of corners and in straights, even the Focus ST I followed for awhile.

Don't fall down that rabbit hole. There is always something faster. The BRZ is a great track car and once you go with more power it comes with more problems, and not necessarily faster lap times.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

Power wise, I was VERY disappointed... So much so I'm contemplating buying a much much faster car. EVERYTHING pulled away out of corners and in straights, even the Focus ST I followed for awhile. I have been contemplating a Edelbrock or Harrop Supercharger, but tearing into the motor is something I'm very hesitant to do.

If you want to go faster than those people on track, learn to be a better driver. The car has a lot left in it. Power makes it easier to make up for mistakes and feel fast, because you can make up for screwing up corners and shifts, but it won't make you any better. You'll also have to deal with far higher temps and fuel cutting out in corners. Then you're replacing your fuel pump. Maybe redoing fuel lines. Adding a fire extinguisher. Wearing a race suit because you don't want to burn to death. That Forester cooler sure won't cut it, so you'll need to replace that, too. You'll still have some overheating issues, so you'll get the bigger radiator. Then you'll cut vents in your hood. And so on and so on.

All so you can pull out of corners faster?

[strat61caster]

@Kostamojen ^^^ What jsimon said x20

tl;dr You could probably find 2s-5s just based on practice and coaching without changing a thing about your car. Ultimately do what makes you happy, but the best upgrade is the nut behind the wheel.

Last time I went with speedSF there was also a guy with a Focus ST in my group at Laguna Seca, I passed him 3x, he never passed me, I tried to see if it was the same guy in your vids but couldn't spot that bright yellow paint That was on stock suspension, Carbotech XP10's and Dunlop ZII SS on OE wheels.

I didn't watch all the videos, but I rarely heard tire squeal, you're still leaving a lot of speed on the table. With street tires you should hear them complaining at every corner if you're pushing more than 9/10ths what the car is capable of.

Here's @The Racers Line video of the West course, he ran a 1:29, skipping through your videos you're about at a 1:38 lap time. Don't know what's been done to that car, but this old link says he pulled off a ~1:32 with stock power.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJYc9pbCOZI"]The Racers Line Scion FR-S @ Thunderhill West 1-31-16 - YouTube[/ame]



Some notes from the start of the lap: You don't need to brake for the chicane, you can carry a ton of speed through it, maybe a lift and dab of brake if you're not confident, but Neil is almost flat out. Through the last S you lift and setup for the left sweeper when you can carry more speed and just hug that left tight and let it drift out, I have no idea why you braked at that crest even through your third session, when you stopped doing that your times picked up a second+. And on the last corner you should carry enough speed the car drifts over the white line. That should be an easy 2s a lap if you can work on those areas.

One of the best lessons I ever learned was swapping racecars with a guy who was beating me, our cars were almost identical, same chassis, same major parts, just minor setup differences. Before that I said "His car is faster! I gotta change my car so I can catch him!". Say I ran a 1:10 lap and he could run a 1:08 all day long, we swapped cars and my time in his car: 1:10, his time in my car? 1:08. This was before video was cheap and easy, the differences in our styles were miniscule, but added up over the course of a lap to something no legal change could have made up for. I went to work perfecting my skills finding tenths here and there, eventually I made up the difference and came mighty close before he left.

Hooked on Driving is nearly double the price of SpeedSF, but the two instructors I had were fantastic, egging me on to pick up the pace, get the tires singing through the corners, guiding and correcting and advising. Stick with the 86 for awhile longer, try and get a good coach in the passenger seat and take many many ride alongs to see where you're giving up time first hand. The old guy with a beat up Miata taught me oodles more than the young guy with a >$40k muscle car.

The top thing is to have fun, if a big power car is what will make it fun than don't hesitate and do it.

But you'll still have the same habits if you don't correct them, you'll only pick up speed where you can mash the gas and then you'll be braking even EARLIER into a the chicane that you don't need to brake for and you'll go post on the muscle car forums about how you just can't match the momentum cars on the brakes and through the corners and your old FR-S was more lively around the track.

And if you're taking tracking seriously, don't forget the cost of consumables, 215/225 tires are easily $200/set cheaper than the 245-255-265-275-285 you'll see on a big muscle car, and they take less of a beating in a 2,700 lb car than they do in a >3,500 lb car.

Best of luck. Edit: Tracking a low powered car isn't for everyone and I'm not here to convince you that your feelings are 'wrong', do what's best for you.

[mkivsoopra]

@Kostamojen, I echo everything that's already been said. The car is actually very capable in NA form. I started tracking my car in 2014 with a turbo. It was loads of fun, and I was able to keep up with all but the fastest cars. However, it was holding me back as a driver, because the car was just SO fast. Also, the stuff @jsimon7777 mentioned were spot on. This year, I've gone back to NA and my driving has improved leaps and bounds from before. On the tighter tracks, I've been able to beat my previous turbo time. You do not need much power to run fast times at Thunderhill West.

With your suspension work and RE71R tires, your car should be able to out-corner most other cars out there. Come out to one of the NorCal 86 CUP events, and there will be many of us who will be happy to give you a ride in our cars on track http://norcal86cup.mkivsoopra.com/

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by overlookedx

Don't fall down that rabbit hole. There is always something faster. The BRZ is a great track car and once you go with more power it comes with more problems, and not necessarily faster lap times.

As of right now, the suspension/grip and brakes far exceed the power of the car. In the hairpins, I couldn't break traction, and the car is far too forgiving because its so well setup. Its the point where the car NEEDS power to keep up with the rest of it...

I'm not concerned about lap times as much as I'm concerned about having fun. I don't be being a hooligan or anything like that, I mean being able to enjoy the car. I would indeed gain a couple seconds a lap with more power, but its not really the point.

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

If you want to go faster than those people on track, learn to be a better driver. The car has a lot left in it. Power makes it easier to make up for mistakes and feel fast, because you can make up for screwing up corners and shifts, but it won't make you any better. You'll also have to deal with far higher temps and fuel cutting out in corners. Then you're replacing your fuel pump. Maybe redoing fuel lines. Adding a fire extinguisher. Wearing a race suit because you don't want to burn to death. That Forester cooler sure won't cut it, so you'll need to replace that, too. You'll still have some overheating issues, so you'll get the bigger radiator. Then you'll cut vents in your hood. And so on and so on.

All so you can pull out of corners faster?

Well, as mentioned, the next step is put money into power, or get a car that already has everything... Its a lot of fiddling to get a reliable 300-400hp with the twins.

My driving is about as good as its going to get, I doubt I'll ever be able to do more than a couple track days a year or a couple auto crosses. Plus, I can't learn how to drive a car with more power until I have more power, I've driven under powered cars all my adult life so I'm pretty well rehearsed there.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I didn't watch all the videos, but I rarely heard tire squeal, you're still leaving a lot of speed on the table. With street tires you should hear them complaining at every corner if you're pushing more than 9/10ths what the car is capable of.

I was keeping it under 9/10ths pretty much the whole time. I was mostly trying to find the racing line in the first couple session, then working on how the car was going to respond to certain situations like the Yellow berm for example, or the hairpins and what not.

When I go 9/10ths I switch modes, start driving VERY differently. I didn't try to do that very much, and I actually wore out during the 4th session and called it quits.

Some notes from the start of the lap: You don't need to brake for the chicane, you can carry a ton of speed through it, maybe a lift and dab of brake if you're not confident, but Neil is almost flat out. Through the last S you lift and setup for the left sweeper when you can carry more speed and just hug that left tight and let it drift out, I have no idea why you braked at that crest even through your third session, when you stopped doing that your times picked up a second+. And on the last corner you should carry enough speed the car drifts over the white line. That should be an easy 2s a lap if you can work on those areas.

My 4th session, which didn't record, I tried several different entries into the first corner. I actually stood and watched a few laps from several cars (including Adam) and how they entered that corner. I saw a couple of different approaches, and in the 4th run I tested a couple but ya It didn't record...

Plus, I found that if I carried a ton of speed into the beginning of that chicane, I had TOO much speed entering the off-camber right hander and that was probably the most dangerous part of the course for me so I didn't try to do too much there.

One thing about not having the power was that I couldn't keep up with people a lot of the time to learn what they were doing. The white Ecoboost Mustang (experienced driver) I was able to follow for a bit and learn from, but the black M3 wasn't an experienced driver and I was able to follow him for awhile in run 3. Didn't learn a lot from him though.