Specific goals in mind... Need help selecting FI kit and tune accordingly

[DesertLava]

Hello all,

I know the question of most reliable FI has come up numerous times, but I wanted to pose the question given my specific circumstance.

I don't track my car regularly and I'm not looking for the biggest power gains possible. My commute to work consists of a 85 mile (each way) drive that goes from 4000 ft elevation to sea level. Then reverse on the way back (sea level to 4000 ft).

My stock '17 86 is fine for me at sea level, but is an absolute slouch in the thinner air when going up towards 4000 ft. Given that NA and SC have typically losses at elevation, I am leaning towards a turbo kit and tune. An SC would be fine if I changed the pulleys, but then at sea level I'd have to swap back or possibly explode my engine (if setup for power at 4000 ft). I understand this is the reason why plane engines are turbocharged and not supercharged.

What turbo kit would you recommend for me that makes my commute more enjoyable on the uphills. Do I need a barometric sensor to adjust for the varying pressure at altitude? Or would the turbocharger just take varying times to spool given the thinner air? The way I understand it is that I will always create the same absolute boost pressure at any altitude, just the time it takes will vary.

Important: 2017 86 with automatic transmission.

Thanks

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[CSG Mike]

4000 feet is not much; we often track at that elevation.

Both SC and TC setups will have no issue at that elevation. Turbos will spool significantly slower, but ultimately have the same output. A SC will lose output with elevation. MAPs are universally required for both SC and TC setups for any modern tune.

It sounds like you're pretty set on a turbo.

PM me to order.

[RIĐO]

I think baro sensor is not needed as turbo will compensate for lower air density so the loss of power will be much less noticable with turbo then with NA. You could run only one map optimized for the altitude that you spend the most time at.
If you are happy with the NA power at sea altitude I would suggest you take any of the turbo kits available and keep the boost low.
You would want most efficient turbo as altitude change will make your turbo work harder but at low psi I think any turbo kit would work.

Write to your tuner or Delicious tuning or CSG. I reckon they will give you some professional info.

Happy boosting

[DesertLava]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

4000 feet is not much; we often track at that elevation.

Both SC and TC setups will have no issue at that elevation. Turbos will spool significantly slower, but ultimately have the same output. A SC will lose output with elevation. MAPs are universally required for both SC and TC setups for any modern tune.

It sounds like you're pretty set on a turbo.

PM me to order.

If I swap out my pulleys for max power @4000ft then what happens when I go to sea level? Won't I chance exploding my engine? I don't fancy the idea of changing my pulleys twice daily.

I want the most reliable set up possible, SC or turbo I am open to. I just need more knowledge. I defer that to your expertise. I candidly prefer an SC but I've read that if I optimize my setup for the higher elevation, it may stress the engine at sea level, is that true? What is your experience with turbos at altitude?

4000ft is certainly not 6000ft, but I lose about 14% peak horsepower at 4000ft (NA). At 6000ft you stand to lose ~24% (NA). I want to minimize losses due to elevation and increase reliability.

Could you recommend a turbo kit and a comparable SC for me? And which supporting mods will be necessary for both. I'm not looking for anything past stage 1 gains. More of just a small bump and then maintenance/consistency through elevation changes.

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[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DesertLava

If I swap out my pulleys for max power @4000ft then what happens when I go to sea level? Won't I chance exploding my engine? I don't fancy the idea of changing my pulleys twice daily.

I want the most reliable set up possible, SC or turbo I am open to. I just need more knowledge. I defer that to your expertise. I candidly prefer an SC but I've read that if I optimize my setup for the higher elevation, it may stress the engine at sea level, is that true? What is your experience with turbos at altitude?

4000ft is certainly not 6000ft, but I lose about 14% peak horsepower at 4000ft (NA). At 6000ft you stand to lose ~24% (NA). I want to minimize losses due to elevation and increase reliability.

Could you recommend a turbo kit and a comparable SC for me? And which supporting mods will be necessary for both. I'm not looking for anything past stage 1 gains. More of just a small bump and then maintenance/consistency through elevation changes.

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You're overthinking it.

For your goals, all you literally need is a bolt-on kit and tune. If you're ONLY staying at 4000 feet, then you optimize for that. In your case, since you're coming down the mountain every day, you optimize for sea level.

PM me for options.

[Jmonty]

Or run two different maps, sea level and a second map for the elevation?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jmonty

Or run two different maps, sea level and a second map for the elevation?

A sea level map will work just fine at 4000 feet! The loss of power is from elevation, not from a tuning change. Optimizing for 4000 feet would be running a smaller pulley on the supercharger, but would mean it will "boost more" or overboost, at sea level.

[DesertLava]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

A sea level map will work just fine at 4000 feet! The loss of power is from elevation, not from a tuning change. Optimizing for 4000 feet would be running a smaller pulley on the supercharger, but would mean it will "boost more" or overboost, at sea level.

With a sea level map at 4000ft, how much less power will I make then a map tuned for peak power at 4000ft?

With a turbo, there is an absolute amount of boost created in total. It will always boost the same, but I will experience more lag at altitude than with a supercharger? How much lag are we talking about? Spooling up a minimal amount of boost wouldn't be that noticeable, would it?

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[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DesertLava

With a sea level map at 4000ft, how much less power will I make then a map tuned for peak power at 4000ft?

With a turbo, there is an absolute amount of boost created in total. It will always boost the same, but I will experience more lag at altitude than with a supercharger? How much lag are we talking about? Spooling up a minimal amount of boost wouldn't be that noticeable, would it?

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less dense air to compress = takes more time and effort to spool.

Even a turbo may not be able to deliver full boost when the air is not dense enough.

Turbo spoolup is always going to be noticeable; it's physics and cannot be avoided. Anyone who says they have zero turbo lag with their turbo setup is either oblivious, or delusional.

My advice stays the same as above; get a bolt-on kit and tune, and if you still want more power, address it at that time.

[DesertLava]

By bolt on you're referring to SC? I'm local to you guys. I'm in SoCal.

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[Irace86.2.0]

It is funny...I just posted this video in another thread then I saw this one. Seems like the altitude was effecting the power on the supercharged car considerably. I don't know if it was because the car was tuned at sea level, if that matters. Seems like E85 would be good to use at altitude with FI.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bhnMYvn5S4"]Supercharged vs Tuned - Long Term FRS (GT86) #5 - Everyday Driver - YouTube[/ame]

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DesertLava

By bolt on you're referring to SC? I'm local to you guys. I'm in SoCal.

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I would consider both turbo and supercharger setups bolt-on. By bolt-on, I mean something relatively simple, e.g. the kit itself, and a tune.

[DesertLava]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

It is funny...I just posted this video in another thread then I saw this one. Seems like the altitude was effecting the power on the supercharged car considerably. I don't know if it was because the car was tuned at sea level, if that matters. Seems like E85 would be good to use at altitude with FI.

There must be a reason planes use turbochargers and not superchargers. I think I'm going to go with a turbo. I know that SC is a lot more popular for our platform but turbo fits my needs better. I just don't know the go to brands for turbo kits for this car.

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[DesertLava]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I would consider both turbo and supercharger setups bolt-on. By bolt-on, I mean something relatively simple, e.g. the kit itself, and a tune.

I see, would it be wise to get an oil cooler regardless of which route I go? I will be driving spiritedly during my commute. Not auto cross level of abuse, but prolonged 4-6k rpm for about an hour. Also a catch can?

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