Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by BlOody_BoOger

That was my thought aswell I wasn't going to use one but someone mentioned how the sprintex makes roughly around 7psi, and would still get pretty hot idk so that's what got me thinking

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sprintex makes about 9psi on the 75mm pulley.
and yeah it will heatsoak with no intercooler after 1-2 10-15 second pulls.

but i think being belt driven from the engine adding more engine load, and sitting on top of the engine, and the design of the supercharger all contributes a lot to the heatsoak.

I don't see having nearly as much issue with the electric supercharger system.

plus the ESC makes roughly 5psi at 3500rpm tapering down to like 2psi at redline. vs the sprintex making about 7psi at 3500rpm tapering up to about 9psi at redline.

your setup might do like 8psi down to 5psi but with no parasitic engine load.

i wouldn't worry about the heatsoak, i would do the setup and see what IAT are at, if it does heatsoak i would just add WMI injection. or figure out a simple water to air setup with a water pump.

[BlOody_BoOger]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

sprintex makes about 9psi on the 75mm pulley.

and yeah it will heatsoak with no intercooler after 1-2 10-15 second pulls.



but i think being belt driven from the engine adding more engine load, and sitting on top of the engine, and the design of the supercharger all contributes a lot to the heatsoak.



I don't see having nearly as much issue with the electric supercharger system.



plus the ESC makes roughly 5psi at 3500rpm tapering down to like 2psi at redline. vs the sprintex making about 7psi at 3500rpm tapering up to about 9psi at redline.



your setup might do like 8psi down to 5psi but with no parasitic engine load.



i wouldn't worry about the heatsoak, i would do the setup and see what IAT are at, if it does heatsoak i would just add WMI injection. or figure out a simple water to air setup with a water pump.

I'll post pictures of the progress and data logs this all a lot of help

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[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by BlOody_BoOger

I'll post pictures of the progress and data logs this all a lot of help

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you could try something like this https://www.dhgate.com/product/epman...SABEgLYFvD_BwE

and then try to fit a CPU cooler to that. something like this
https://www.ekwb.com/solutions/all-in-one/
might be easier then getting a pump and radiator setup, the fans would allow it to be mounted anywhere, and everything on one power source, just an idea. You wouldnt need the actually CPU heatsink portion, just the fan/pump/radiator and hose combo.

[churchx]

PC liquid cooling hardware is not very well fit for automotive purposes. Or even if it will work, it will work less efficient vs purpose optimized.
PC looks-based builds aside, one of main priorities for LC is quieter cooling. Quieter cooling with quieter/slower/less powerful fans needs rads of less FPI (and higher size/mostly frontal area, but also thickness), which will mean that they will be oversized (harder to find mounting space) and will weight excess (also because most common rads/cooling blocks for PCs are from copper or brass, vs automotive rads usually being aluminum) vs high fins per inch automotive rad optimized for powerful fans (noise matters way less under bonnet behind firewall and near relatively loud engine), that can net same cooling even if being of 4x times smaller frontal area (thus also less weight and easier to find space where to mount in cramped underbonnet space of modern cars).
Also even though common pumps used in PC LC scene (eg. Laing D5 or DDC series) are also 12V pumps, not sure they will respond well with possible voltage spikes in power and IIRC they also were certified upto 60C, not temps one may see under bonnet near hot engine. But if one will use just PC LC waterblocks/rads, but pump with automotive pumps, they are not designed for possibly higher pressure of positive displacement pumps vs lower pressure of PC LC centrifugal pumps (for which pressure matters too, but only as extra to quiet operation).
In short, not sure it's good idea.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by churchx

PC liquid cooling hardware is not very well fit for automotive purposes. Or even if it will work, it will work less efficient vs purpose optimized.
PC looks-based builds aside, one of main priorities for LC is quieter cooling. Quieter cooling with quieter/slower/less powerful fans needs rads of less FPI (and higher size/mostly frontal area, but also thickness), which will mean that they will be oversized (harder to find mounting space) and will weight excess (also because most common rads/cooling blocks for PCs are from copper or brass, vs automotive rads usually being aluminum) vs high fins per inch automotive rad optimized for powerful fans (noise matters way less under bonnet behind firewall and near relatively loud engine), that can net same cooling even if being of 4x times smaller frontal area (thus also less weight and easier to find space where to mount in cramped underbonnet space of modern cars).
Also even though common pumps used in PC LC scene (eg. Laing D5 or DDC series) are also 12V pumps, not sure they will respond well with possible voltage spikes in power and IIRC they also were certified upto 60C, not temps one may see under bonnet near hot engine.
In short, not sure it's good idea.

The PC cpu heatsink/heat exchanger would not be retained, only the rad/pump/fans and lines that can easily be lengthened. Also this can easily be mounted anywhere far away from engine heat. And with fans doesn’t need direct airflow. A 24v to 12v step down converter is only 10$. I would be more concerned with how this holds up to the elements then its efficiency or engine heat. But it was just an idea to have a small all in one solution.

The intercoooler I posted that would be used is a small 4”x6” pipe that would easily fit in line with his system not increasing distance from blower to engine. He is not trying to cool 15+psi from a hot heatsoaked turbo. He is cooling boost from an electric supercharger that will make less then 6psi at 6k+ rpm. His cooling needs are not very much. So a small simple easy solution would suffice. a big front mount traditional intercooler is way overkill and would probably have more negatives then positives.

[jflogerzi]

Look at the works stage turbo kits for ideas

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[BlOody_BoOger]

I wonder if rather than having a that y pipe bypass valve I can use one of these. They're meant for preventing hydro lock, if your ever in a situation where water gets to your intake. But these little bypass valves allow are to come in while at the same time hold pressure from air trying to escape.

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[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by BlOody_BoOger

I wonder if rather than having a that y pipe bypass valve I can use one of these. They're meant for preventing hydro lock, if your ever in a situation where water gets to your intake. But these little bypass valves allow are to come in while at the same time hold pressure from air trying to escape.

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First time seeing that looks kind of interesting. AEM website does specifically say not for use with FI though.

You could just put a cone filter right on the end of the Y pipe bypass. It would simplest but getting hot engine bay air but it would only be while cruising so probably not a big deal. Or do another normal Y pipe to have both sides reconnect after the chargers so you only have one “cai” pipe and filter. Air would split once inside going the path of least resistance. Or open side when ESC is off and ESC side when its on.

Have you figured out space and where your positioning the two ESC?

[BlOody_BoOger]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

First time seeing that looks kind of interesting. AEM website does specifically say not for use with FI though.



You could just put a cone filter right on the end of the Y pipe bypass. It would simplest but getting hot engine bay air but it would only be while cruising so probably not a big deal. Or do another normal Y pipe to have both sides reconnect after the chargers so you only have one “cai” pipe and filter. Air would split once inside going the path of least resistance. Or open side when ESC is off and ESC side when its on.



Have you figured out space and where your positioning the two ESC?

I have, one would sit right where the airbox is and the other one where it currently sits now the nice thing about these is that they can be facing any direction and will still work so in this case the first one will be upside down so the electric power points towards the engine. If I do end up using the y pipe I plan on having the filter sit right in front of the fan, with a heat shield behind it.

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[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by BlOody_BoOger

I have, one would sit right where the airbox is and the other one where it currently sits now the nice thing about these is that they can be facing any direction and will still work so in this case the first one will be upside down so the electric power points towards the engine. If I do end up using the y pipe I plan on having the filter sit right in front of the fan, with a heat shield behind it.

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I have way too much free time on my hands at work... lol. Drew up a few quick concepts.
1st one probably the simplest.
2nd is with intercooler, 3rd with two intercoolers. 4th is same as 2-3 but routing is underneath the Y pipe / filter instead of in front, as i dont know how much space and dimensions everything is. "CAI" is perrin "style" so your getting that cold air.

2nd option would probably be pretty good. i bet the 4"x6" intercooler would be enough to drop temps 10-15degrees. but the twin ESC probably wont raise temps too much above ambient to need a ton of cooling like a normal turbo/supercharger does. and then you dont have tons of pressure drop and complex piping either from a traditional intercooler setup. if you did need more cooling the 3rd option should be more then enough for sure.

[BlOody_BoOger]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

I have way too much free time on my hands at work... lol. Drew up a few quick concepts.

1st one probably the simplest.

2nd is with intercooler, 3rd with two intercoolers. 4th is same as 2-3 but routing is underneath the Y pipe / filter instead of in front, as i dont know how much space and dimensions everything is. "CAI" is perrin "style" so your getting that cold air.



2nd option would probably be pretty good. i bet the 4"x6" intercooler would be enough to drop temps 10-15degrees. but the twin ESC probably wont raise temps too much above ambient to need a ton of cooling like a normal turbo/supercharger does. and then you dont have tons of pressure drop and complex piping either from a traditional intercooler setup. if you did need more cooling the 3rd option should be more then enough for sure.

How does that intercooler work? I'm not familiar with those. Is there a link u could send so I could read up about them. Lol not bad on the concept designs

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[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by BlOody_BoOger

How does that intercooler work? I'm not familiar with those. Is there a link u could send so I could read up about them. Lol not bad on the concept designs

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I sent the link a few posts back. It is a pipe, with an intercooler/heat-exchanger inside. Its similar to a catalytic converter in design but it has water fittings to cool it. Many different sizes to choose from depending on space, but the 4”x6” would probably be easier to fit. Because its water to air cooled, it simplifies and shortens the pipe routing. And if you have a fan for the rad you can mount anywhere because you don't need direct airflow. The spot where the stock battery is could be a good spot especially if you have a small battery like a shorai, or are relocating all batteries to trunk. Then you can mount rad/fan/pump in that spot.

The other thing i linked a few posts back is a fan/rad/pump all in one combo which would again simplify the design/space/wiring, its for a pc cpu but you will remove the cpu heatsink/exchanger and put the appropriate fittings on the hoses to fit on the intercooler. And being so far back away from the engine, engine heat wouldn’t be a big issue you could even put a heat blocking shield to really keep that cool.

Not the most ideal setup for true FI but ESC doesn’t have nearly the heat. Only really the heat from increased boost pressure, vs engine or exhaust heatsoak. So if you wanted an intercooler i think this could be a simply easy solution to drop temps maybe 10-15% maybe 20-25% with two. Add in WMI and it would be ice cold.

[BlOody_BoOger]

Any one got a clue why I'm making such lil power???
I'm in e85 openflash phantom original tune.
Ft86 UEL headers
Grams throttle body
AEM e85 fuel pump
Aftermarket over pipe
Catless front pipe
And full catback exhaust.
I thought atleast I would be making
225whp/210tq
The phantom is pushing a good 4.5 psi at Max sometimes even 4.7 so I'm confused.


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[Target70]

Originally Posted by BlOody_BoOger

Any one got a clue why I'm making such lil power???
I'm in e85 openflash phantom original tune.
Ft86 UEL headers
Grams throttle body
AEM e85 fuel pump
Aftermarket over pipe
Catless front pipe
And full catback exhaust.
I thought atleast I would be making
225whp/210tq
The phantom is pushing a good 4.5 psi at Max sometimes even 4.7 so I'm confused.

Yeah, I agree. I have this dyno maybe from fenton? of some dual dump pack e85 runs that was hitting just under 225whp/200tq



I don't know but have read it could it be caused by different dyno settings. Also I don't think the standard Phantom E85 tune will be the most efficient for some of your mods, like the throttle body. Hopefully someone else has a better idea.