follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB

Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB Problems, issues, recalls, TSBs


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-08-2018, 09:52 PM   #1
Mr. Kurtz
Member
 
Mr. Kurtz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Drives: None
Location: USA
Posts: 29
Thanks: 4
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
2017 M/T, 29k miles, requiring valve adjustment

I've had a sporadic check engine light since about 6500 miles. When it first came on, I brought it to the dealer I purchased it from for them to have a look. It had codes P118F and P219A, and I noticed a very slight rough idle. When I spoke to the service manager, he claimed the check engine light was on because of my remote starter. I pressed him on whether the tech had done any testing related to these two DTC's, and he said no, they didn't need to, because of the remote starter. This same dealer also billed Toyota for my 7500 Toyota Care service at 5000 miles, while doing none of the associated work, but I digress...

Anyway, fast forward to now, 29,000 miles on the clock, and the light has come on(and gone off on its own) six more times; the first three with P219A and P118F, the second three with P219A and P119F. I brought it to a different local Toyota dealer, who actually spent some time looking at the car, and they determined the valves needed to be adjusted.

They claim the motor needs to come out to adjust the valves. Can anyone confirm this? It seems reasonable, as the motor is wide and the car is narrow. Obviously it's all under warranty, and they are providing a loaner, so I'm not overly concerned how they get it done.

What is everyone's experience with the FA20/4U-GSE motor and valve adjustment intervals? I couldn't find anything from Toyota or Subaru giving a spec for the mileage at which they should be checked.
Mr. Kurtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2018, 01:12 AM   #2
humfrz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: 2013 FR-S, white, MT
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 29,953
Thanks: 28,927
Thanked 32,003 Times in 16,486 Posts
Mentioned: 709 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kurtz View Post
I've had a sporadic check engine light since about 6500 miles. When it first came on, I brought it to the dealer I purchased it from for them to have a look. It had codes P118F and P219A, and I noticed a very slight rough idle. When I spoke to the service manager, he claimed the check engine light was on because of my remote starter. I pressed him on whether the tech had done any testing related to these two DTC's, and he said no, they didn't need to, because of the remote starter. This same dealer also billed Toyota for my 7500 Toyota Care service at 5000 miles, while doing none of the associated work, but I digress...

Anyway, fast forward to now, 29,000 miles on the clock, and the light has come on(and gone off on its own) six more times; the first three with P219A and P118F, the second three with P219A and P119F. I brought it to a different local Toyota dealer, who actually spent some time looking at the car, and they determined the valves needed to be adjusted.

They claim the motor needs to come out to adjust the valves. Can anyone confirm this? It seems reasonable, as the motor is wide and the car is narrow. Obviously it's all under warranty, and they are providing a loaner, so I'm not overly concerned how they get it done.

What is everyone's experience with the FA20/4U-GSE motor and valve adjustment intervals? I couldn't find anything from Toyota or Subaru giving a spec for the mileage at which they should be checked.
Well, now that's a bummer ......

Yes, to "adjust" the valves, I reckon the engine would have to come out of the car. I understand that they are "adjusted" by replacing shims.

I haven't heard too much on this forum about having to replace valve shims, especially at that relatively low mileage.

But, I reckon if they are willing to do the work at their expense ...... they must be pretty sure that is the problem.




humfrz

FLASHBACK: Adjust valves ..... a one beer job. Warm up car, while drinking 1/2 of a beer, take off the valve cover (two acorn nuts); loosen each adjuster nut, insert feeler gauge, turn adjuster screw with a short screwdriver, tighten nut. Repeat 11 more times, replace valve cover ...... finish the beer ....done......
humfrz is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to humfrz For This Useful Post:
Mr. Kurtz (03-12-2018)
Old 03-12-2018, 12:44 AM   #3
Oxyg3n
Senior Member
 
Oxyg3n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Drives: 2017 BRZ - WRB
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 319
Thanks: 115
Thanked 209 Times in 109 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Honestly I don't know much about the internals of car engines..but @ 5000 miles my engine was also taken out to perform valve adjustment with the P119F and P219A codes. My CEL has not come back on ever since so I would assume that is the correct fix.

Although I always felt that my car made weird mechanical noises after, but that could be just a placebo effect since I was not happy they had to take apart my new car.

P.s. I was lucky to get a free 100k/7yr gold warranty because I expressed how I was unhappy I had to face this with a new car and they would not provide lemon law.
Oxyg3n is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Oxyg3n For This Useful Post:
humfrz (03-12-2018), jcw99 (03-12-2018), Mr. Kurtz (03-12-2018), Tristor (03-31-2018)
Old 03-12-2018, 09:56 AM   #4
Mr. Kurtz
Member
 
Mr. Kurtz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Drives: None
Location: USA
Posts: 29
Thanks: 4
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by humfrz View Post
Yes, to "adjust" the valves, I reckon the engine would have to come out of the car. I understand that they are "adjusted" by replacing shims.

humfrz
Yeah, these are the same design as my race bike I believe, shim under bucket, with the only way to adjust clearance being to change the shims. I'm going to ask them to record the valve clearances and shim before/after sizing for any they adjust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxyg3n View Post
Honestly I don't know much about the internals of car engines..but @ 5000 miles my engine was also taken out to perform valve adjustment with the P119F and P219A codes. My CEL has not come back on ever since so I would assume that is the correct fix.
Well, I guess I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm really annoyed that way back at 6400 miles, when I first had the CEL on, I didn't bring it to a different dealer.
Mr. Kurtz is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mr. Kurtz For This Useful Post:
humfrz (03-12-2018), Tristor (03-31-2018)
Old 03-30-2018, 03:12 PM   #5
Mr. Kurtz
Member
 
Mr. Kurtz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Drives: None
Location: USA
Posts: 29
Thanks: 4
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Alright...

Dropped the car off on March 15 for the valve adjustment, picked it up today. I had a loaner car, so I made it clear to them that I was not going to rush them, and they assured me the shop foreman was the one actually doing the work, with guidance from 'TAS,' which I assume to be some sort of information help desk for Toyota dealer service departments.

Get the call this morning that the car is done, and they are short on loaners, so the service advisor asks how soon I could come get it. I tell him I'll head down on lunch, shortly after 12, which I do, but he's gone already for the day, so I just get the keys and receipt from the cashier.

Get in the car, adjust the seat, plug my phone charger back in, etc, and notice the car has 66 miles on it since I dropped it off. I'm not worried, because I have a friend who works at this dealer(in another department) and they know that, so I imagine they haven't been needlessly joy riding or anything. Turns out the shop foreman drove it home to make sure the MIL didn't come back on, which is fine by me.

I pull out and drive down the road, and immediately upon giving it some gas in a straight line it now makes so much power it lights up both rear tires at 30mph! Wait...that doesn't seem right. Shift up into a too-high gear, floor it...and the revs shoot up...but the car doesn't accelerate. Great...now the clutch is slipping. Go around the block, pull back into the shop, hand the keys to the check in person and explain I need to drop this back off. He wanders off, the shop foreman comes out and introduces himself. I explain what's going on, he says "yeah, I noticed it was slipping, (my friend) was gonna ask if you wanted to put a new clutch in." I tell him that (friend) said the shop wanted to know if I wanted to upgrade the clutch, but since it's a stock car with 30k on it, I saw no reason to. Foreman says "well, it's all under warranty, we'll just put a new clutch in it," then says his goodbye and leaves back into the shop.

Check-in person comes back, hands me back my keys, takes the new window tag out of the car, and says I need to wait and talk to the service advisor on Monday, and tells me the clutch isn't under warranty anyway. They've got no loaners(the one I just drove in is gone...), so I ask him to document that I came right back, and that he's advising me to drive the car home with the clutch slipping. He does so, and tells me I'll hear from the service advisor Monday. As I'm backing out, the other check-in person tells me the service advisor will actually be in tomorrow at 7am, and that I can call him then.

So...now after 15 days, I have my car back, with a pretty badly slipping clutch. This absolutely WAS NOT slipping when I dropped it off. I drive the car every day, I'm pretty gentle(the car isn't' a straight line fast car, all the fun is in the handing), and there is no way I could have been oblivious; the car jumps 1000 rpm at the slightest application of throttle anywhere below 4000rpm, with no acceleration. Also, it stinks like burnt clutch.

I'm hoping they do the right thing and take care of this. If they don't, and since it seems to be my word against theirs, how much hope do I have that Toyota will intervene and make this right? Anyone have any experience with this type of scenario?

Also...there was another 2017, this one with 500 miles, in the shop for a valve adjustment when I picked mine up.

Also also...what factory clutch on a 205HP car starts slipping at 30,000 miles?!
Mr. Kurtz is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mr. Kurtz For This Useful Post:
strat61caster (03-31-2018)
Old 03-30-2018, 03:28 PM   #6
bcj
Geo Tyrebighter Esq
 
bcj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: '13 scion fr-s
Location: pnw
Posts: 4,212
Thanks: 6,401
Thanked 5,033 Times in 2,218 Posts
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kurtz View Post
Yeah, these are the same design as my race bike I believe, shim under bucket, with the only way to adjust clearance being to change the shims. I'm going to ask them to record the valve clearances and shim before/after sizing for any they adjust.
Not shim & bucket though. Hydraulic lifters and a short rocker/roller between the camshaft and valve.
Maybe a problem with the lifter pressure and too much goo in an oil gallery.
There have been reports of some early trouble with rocker arms and poor manufacturing.
More likely would be something happening at the cam timing gubbins on the camshaft.

Hope the clutch problems are sorted soon.

__________________
--
"I gotta rock." -- Charley Brown

Last edited by bcj; 03-30-2018 at 03:41 PM.
bcj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2018, 08:06 PM   #7
sfdai0
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Drives: S2000
Location: Maryland
Posts: 63
Thanks: 3
Thanked 22 Times in 13 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I dont know if its just the small sample size, but a couple of threads of new 2017/2018 with codes popping up so early worries me.
sfdai0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2018, 09:59 PM   #8
humfrz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: 2013 FR-S, white, MT
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 29,953
Thanks: 28,927
Thanked 32,003 Times in 16,486 Posts
Mentioned: 709 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcj View Post
Not shim & bucket though. Hydraulic lifters and a short rocker/roller between the camshaft and valve.
Are you sure about that ........??




humfrz

PS

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114499

Last edited by humfrz; 03-30-2018 at 10:33 PM.
humfrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2018, 12:40 PM   #9
bcj
Geo Tyrebighter Esq
 
bcj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: '13 scion fr-s
Location: pnw
Posts: 4,212
Thanks: 6,401
Thanked 5,033 Times in 2,218 Posts
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
Well. That's a revelation. Shim under rocker.
Part #1 in the picture looked like the perfect place to put hydraulics.
My Honda 650 motor had almost exactly the same configuration, though without the roller.
Those were hydraulic lifters in that case.

If #1 was threaded, with a lock nut, you wouldn't need the shim either.
What *were* they thinking? "Hey! let's make this even sillier!"

__________________
--
"I gotta rock." -- Charley Brown
bcj is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to bcj For This Useful Post:
humfrz (03-31-2018)
Old 03-31-2018, 01:13 PM   #10
steve99
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: FT86
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,998
Thanks: 1,035
Thanked 4,987 Times in 2,981 Posts
Mentioned: 598 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kurtz View Post
I've had a sporadic check engine light since about 6500 miles. When it first came on, I brought it to the dealer I purchased it from for them to have a look. It had codes P118F and P219A, and I noticed a very slight rough idle. When I spoke to the service manager, he claimed the check engine light was on because of my remote starter. I pressed him on whether the tech had done any testing related to these two DTC's, and he said no, they didn't need to, because of the remote starter. This same dealer also billed Toyota for my 7500 Toyota Care service at 5000 miles, while doing none of the associated work, but I digress...

Anyway, fast forward to now, 29,000 miles on the clock, and the light has come on(and gone off on its own) six more times; the first three with P219A and P118F, the second three with P219A and P119F. I brought it to a different local Toyota dealer, who actually spent some time looking at the car, and they determined the valves needed to be adjusted.

They claim the motor needs to come out to adjust the valves. Can anyone confirm this? It seems reasonable, as the motor is wide and the car is narrow. Obviously it's all under warranty, and they are providing a loaner, so I'm not overly concerned how they get it done.

What is everyone's experience with the FA20/4U-GSE motor and valve adjustment intervals? I couldn't find anything from Toyota or Subaru giving a spec for the mileage at which they should be checked.

Seems kind of weird that they reckon valves need adjustment when those CEL codes relate to air fuel ratio imbalance. Would have though they would be looking at fuel pressure, ecu fuel trims, maf sensors 02 sensors or intake/exhaust leaks
steve99 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to steve99 For This Useful Post:
humfrz (04-01-2018)
Old 03-31-2018, 03:12 PM   #11
humfrz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: 2013 FR-S, white, MT
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 29,953
Thanks: 28,927
Thanked 32,003 Times in 16,486 Posts
Mentioned: 709 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcj View Post
..............If #1 was threaded, with a lock nut, you wouldn't need the shim either.
What *were* they thinking? "Hey! let's make this even sillier!"
I reckon "they" were thinking that the LAST thing we need, is a bunch of half assed trained mechanics with a half inch wrench and a feeler gauge, adjusting the valves on these engines .......





humfrz
humfrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2018, 04:28 PM   #12
bcj
Geo Tyrebighter Esq
 
bcj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: '13 scion fr-s
Location: pnw
Posts: 4,212
Thanks: 6,401
Thanked 5,033 Times in 2,218 Posts
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
That's what they're doing now.
Only they have to pull the cams to do it and muck around with precision micrometers along with the wrenches and feelers.

What a whorl... what a whorl.
__________________
--
"I gotta rock." -- Charley Brown
bcj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2018, 05:08 PM   #13
Capt Spaulding
Persona Non Grata
 
Capt Spaulding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Drives: '15 BRZ (WRB)
Location: On the Border
Posts: 1,882
Thanks: 2,016
Thanked 2,780 Times in 1,200 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
These things requiring valve adjustments is really strange. Given the design of the valve train the only real chance for the clearances to change should be valve recession due to valve seat/valve face wear, That'll tighten them up, eventually causing driveability problems, but it should happen VERY slowly. There must be screwups happening during engine assembly, or something seriously wrong in the metallurgy of the valve seats/faces. I would ask for an explanation.
Capt Spaulding is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Capt Spaulding For This Useful Post:
humfrz (04-01-2018)
Old 03-31-2018, 05:10 PM   #14
Mr. Kurtz
Member
 
Mr. Kurtz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Drives: None
Location: USA
Posts: 29
Thanks: 4
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
The one they were doing after mine only had 500 miles, and my symptoms initially appeared at only 6000. Iím gonna guess these are assembly errors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mr. Kurtz is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Miles to empty on 2017 86? tukai Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 73 09-09-2018 12:28 AM
2017 Series.Yellow - 7.5k miles SaintJayvee Cars for Sale/Trade 7 11-10-2017 02:13 PM
2017 Series.Yellow - 7.5k miles SaintJayvee Cars for Sale/Trade 1 08-21-2017 11:28 AM
Valve adjustment GsxrMe Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 11 01-14-2017 06:07 PM
What are the biggest wheels and spacing before requiring any other special modificati WallsAndFoundations Wheels | Tires | Spacers | Hub -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack 12 07-05-2014 08:16 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.