Does any UEL come close to the Ace header gains?

[mav1178]

If the same header is available for less than $400, I think the value proposition conversation will be entirely different.

[bfrank1972]

To some, the extra $ is not significant. To some, it is. ACE headers are probably one of the best headers out there no doubt, but there are other nice pieces out there too. Spend a ton of dyno time like delicious spent on the ACE setup, and that could be most of the difference right there.

I was thinking about this on the drive home - if I had an ACE header and custom tune would my car be faster than with my catted P&L with OFT and canned stage 2 tune. I do not doubt it. Could my header be made as fast as a catless ACE setup with a custom tune? Probably not, but I reckon I'd probably be close, with a bit different torque curve. Am I worried about that? No. Are either setups going to pin me to my seat? No.

I love the big difference my headers make, changes the character of the car and made it much more fun to drive. I love the way this header sounds. I love that it cost me just $400. YMMV - if you want EL sound and dont mind spending for it, you can't go wrong with ACE. And if you don't like that option, there are plenty of perfectly good alternatives- let's not get sucked into another header debate, way too many variables and subjectivity.

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[phrosty]

I don't think your choice of header matters as much as you think it does.

You need to keep in mind that the massive WHP numbers the sellers post are based on ridiculously exhaustive, specific tuning for a single car. A lot more than a simple header went into them, and those dyno numbers don't represent what your own car would be able to achieve with the same amount of time, let alone what you'd achieve with an off-the-shelf or a simple 30min tune session.

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

$475 Gruppe-s UEL and $300 OFT from classifieds = 1/3 the cost of Ace/ecutek/tune and close enough because 10HP isn't worth $1500 more.
That extra $1.5k will get a final drive swap done with money left over for other fun stuff and it will be enjoyed more than having a 200HP dyno to brag about.

You can also buy an Ace used. Plus the extra cost is less painful after you consider resale.

Originally Posted by phrosty

You need to keep in mind that the massive WHP numbers the sellers post are based on ridiculously exhaustive, specific tuning for a single car. A lot more than a simple header went into them, and those dyno numbers don't represent what your own car would be able to achieve with the same amount of time, let alone what you'd achieve with an off-the-shelf or a simple 30min tune session.

I don't think that's a fair assessment. The exhaustive work is in optimizing the vvt tables. Once you have that figured out it should not take an extreme amount of effort to tune each car. It's far from a case of having to start from scratch on each car.

[Breadman]

Originally Posted by Detroiter

If you are adding the forced induction fact into there then the JDL turbo kit is far cheaper and arguably better than an ACE header with any supercharger with the GT or GTX turbo upgrade. Depending on the goals of the car of course.

doesnt that require cutting a support beam out and replacing it with some janky shit?

[Breadman]

Originally Posted by Detroiter

If you are adding the forced induction fact into there then the JDL turbo kit is far cheaper and arguably better than an ACE header with any supercharger with the GT or GTX turbo upgrade. Depending on the goals of the car of course.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Literally in the post you quoted:

"~5hp peak and a lot of area under the curve"

i just took it as you were acting like its no big deal when right where you drive it was 95whp vs 110ish which is a rather large % increase for where you daily

[Detroiter]

Originally Posted by Breadman

doesnt that require cutting a support beam out and replacing it with some janky shit?

The regular kit requires a tube crash bar or to cut the factory one a small amount. It is not at all janky and extremely common on modded cars. You can also pay a little more to get their non cut kit that reroutes the intercooler piping to where you do not have to cut it. The sacrifice is the throttle will be less responsive.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by gtengr

You can also buy an Ace used. Plus the extra cost is less painful after you consider resale.

I have seen two ACE setups go for sale used. Both were trying to get almost new pricing.

They are not that common, and the "deals" used weren't even worth not buying new.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Breadman

i just took it as you were acting like its no big deal when right where you drive it was 95whp vs 110ish which is a rather large % increase for where you daily

Also in the post you quoted:

"whether it's worth more than $1k (extra) is up to the individual."

[mistople]

Thanks all. I think I’ll stick with a JDL or Tomei setup.

[FunnyGopher]

Originally Posted by mistople

Thanks all. I think I’ll stick with a JDL or Tomei setup.

A lot of our club members have been very happy with the JDL UEL header. They give a significant torque and HP gain when tuned, and sound really good. Can't go wrong with them. JDL is also local to us, so we're a bit biased.

[Spawn_Of_Creation]

Originally Posted by gtengr

There are Ace-specific vvt tables available for the OFT.

Where?

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

I have seen two ACE setups go for sale used. Both were trying to get almost new pricing.

They are not that common, and the "deals" used weren't even worth not buying new.

Fair enough, but to me that just means you'll get more of your money back when you eventually sell.

Originally Posted by Spawn_Of_Creation

Where?

roughly mid-post after the Nameless/PLM tables: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74754

[Xxyion]

Go with a JDL setup. Pair that with a Delicious tune as they have worked directly with JDL to provide a tune specific to their header. Hell they even have a tune called JDL Stage 2 tune.

I run JDL headers with that exact tune and honestly it feels only slightly slower than when i had the Edelbrock on the car. I'll be running E85 soon, so i hope to be in the 200-210whp range.