Litchfield BRZ in EVO's Track Car of the Year 2013

[bunny86]

Originally Posted by kaybee123

That mini is probably more expensive than a stock BRZ with a supercharger btw.

Don't know about you but I thought it was awesome!

No, it's not and that Litchfield car had a lot more than a FI kit on it.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by bunny86

$300,000 ? I think you will find that it's double that.

The McLaren 12C starts around $289k. I dunno why, but you're probably thinking of the 7 figure P1?

[ICantAffordAnLFA]

Mini is £29k in the uk.

Entry level brz plus litchfield sc , about the same.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by rskdsk

I don't know guy ... this review was disappointing to me as well. The BRZ is modded against stock cars ... and just makes it past the mini ... I like my car, but it makes you think twice about dumping 5-7k on a SC.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. EVO's dislike for the Twins isn't exactly hidden. They trashed the BRZ during their initial review of it, then looked stupid when everyone else universally loved it. Since then, you can see that every subsequent review they've done on the Twins has backtracked a bit each time, but with little jabs thrown in to justify that initial scathing review.

EVO's not really trustworthy when it comes to reviewing the Twins.

[DeepHunta]

mmmm Litchfield. mmmm supercharger!

Soooon my BRZ, soon. Once warranty expires, I'm slapping a supercharger. Maybe I'll buy Litchfield's kit.

[bunny86]

Originally Posted by ICantAffordAnLFA

Mini is £29k in the uk.

Entry level brz plus litchfield sc , about the same.

Litchfield BRZ (as seen and tested in video) - £35,000 approx. - Supercharger, ECU, Brakes, Suspension, Exhaust, Wheels and tyres.

[bunny86]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

The McLaren 12C starts around $289k. I dunno why, but you're probably thinking of the 7 figure P1?

I was thinking of the one seen and tested in the video, the 12C Can-Am edition, which retails for about £375,000 which is about $600,000 I do believe.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by rskdsk

I don't know guy ... this review was disappointing to me as well. The BRZ is modded against stock cars ... and just makes it past the mini ... I like my car, but it makes you think twice about dumping 5-7k on a SC.

None of those cars is really a "stock" car. They are all special builds. Even the Mini is basically a skunkworks version very few will actually buy.

Litchfield is essentially a "factory" modifier. They sell modified Subarus (and other brands) with a warranty.

The idea that it "just gets past the Mini" is a little unfair as it is a full 1.5 seconds faster. By that measure the $80,000 Cayman S just squeaks by the BRZ by only 2 seconds. The Cayman engine puts out much more torque and power than the BRZ. Two litres supercharged doesn't quite equal 3.4 litres naturally aspirated, although this engine has more to deliver with a drop in compression ratio and a bit more boost.

I'd be interested to know two things: exactly which tires were fitted to this BRZ and was an opportunity overlooked to dial out some of this car's crazy oversteer tendencies? Oversteer is VERY slow and it seems highly likely that dialling in some more understeer would have put this BRZ on par with the Cayman.

[ajc209]

The stock car actually understeers a fair bit on the limit. It is only when you user too much power to induce power oversteer that the back end will pop out.

As far as I know from others with the litchfield performance pack fitted, it makes the car turn in a bit more sharply with less body roll and has less understeer on the limit - mainly thanks to the new anti roll bars.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by ajc209

The stock car actually understeers a fair bit on the limit. It is only when you user too much power to induce power oversteer that the back end will pop out.

As far as I know from others with the litchfield performance pack fitted, it makes the car turn in a bit more sharply with less body roll and has less understeer on the limit - mainly thanks to the new anti roll bars.

All road cars, and all racing cars for that matter, understeer unless you power oversteer.

My point is that the BRZ oversteers too easily to be truly quick. The FRS is reportedly even worse in this regard. Unless Litchfield addressed this in their coilover setup, and it seems they didn't, then the BRZ would be slower than you would expect. Increasing this car's tendency to power oversteer, if that's what Litchfield actually did, was a dumb waste of money. I strongly suspect they did not do this but were stuck with Subaru's geometry which probably lies at the root if the problem.

This tendency to severe lift off oversteer and an unreasonable tendency to oversteer under power is the worst feature of this car from a drivers perspective. This was deliberately dialled in by Subaru, and even more so by Toyota, to appeal to a certain demographic. Which is a shame because it spoils an otherwise excellent sportscar.

[ajc209]

I wouldn't say the Car has severe lift off or power overseer.... In fact most people I know that have modified their setup have dialled out some of the under-steer and made it more tail happy. Equally though, with good control, you can keep it tidy and set decent lap times if you want. That is the beauty of such a car after all....

Has anyone seen the video of the fensport car giving the Mclaren MP4-C12 a run for it money?

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by ajc209

I wouldn't say the Car has severe lift off or power overseer.... In fact most people I know that have modified their setup have dialled out some of the under-steer and made it more tail happy. Equally though, with good control, you can keep it tidy and set decent lap times if you want. That is the beauty of such a car after all....

Has anyone seen the video of the fensport car giving the Mclaren MP4-C12 a run for it money?

Try driving on snow or ice and you'll find the deficiencies in the chassis immediately. Reminds me of most BMW products and Mercs for that matter, way too tail happy to be quick when the grip level goes away.

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by ajc209

I wouldn't say the Car has severe lift off or power overseer.... In fact most people I know that have modified their setup have dialled out some of the under-steer and made it more tail happy.

Originally Posted by Suberman

Try driving on snow or ice and you'll find the deficiencies in the chassis immediately. Reminds me of most BMW products and Mercs for that matter, way too tail happy to be quick when the grip level goes away.

I find myself agreeing with both of you :\

I have my car setup to be less understeery, which I find makes it feel really neutral in the dry. In the wet it wants to oversteer everwhere, but I don't think that's a consequence of the suspension tuning or chassis setup-- just a matter of lack of grip. I don't see how you'd avoid this though except by driving something like a 911 where you've got a lot of weight on the driven wheels.

[ajc209]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

I find myself agreeing with both of you :\

I have my car setup to be less understeery, which I find makes it feel really neutral in the dry. In the wet it wants to oversteer everwhere, but I don't think that's a consequence of the suspension tuning or chassis setup-- just a matter of lack of grip. I don't see how you'd avoid this though except by driving something like a 911 where you've got a lot of weight on the driven wheels.

Its all about weight distribution. Putting lots of weight over the back wheels is not necessarily a good thing!

My daily driver is a Mercedes Class AMG Sport and its an under steering beast, which only gets worse in the wet. In the snow if I boot it whilst turning in, of course it will power oversteer.... but generall the front end breaks away far sooner than the back and the GT86 does feel very oversteery when compared.