Track Brake Pad Discussion Thread

[RacingredGR86]

Brake Pad Manufacturer (F/R): Carbotech
Caliper (F/R): OEM
Rotor Size (F/R - IE OEM or specify): OEM
Compound (F/R): XP10 front/ XP10 rear
Tires: OEM Michelin PS4 (215/40/18)

Feedback: After following bedding instructions, pads do screech/ squeal at low speeds when cold. However when warmed up they have good bite, little to no noise, and holds up well on the track.

Scores:
Dusting (1=high-10=low): 2
Cold bite (1=low-10=high): 4
Hot bite (1=low-10=high): 8
Modulation (1=low-10=high): 9
Noise (1=extremely loud-10=quiet): 4
Pad Lifespan (1=short-10=long): 1 HPDE, 2 AutoX and counting.
Does the brake dust with this combination damage the wheels/paint if not cleaned immediately? No
Brake ducts: No

[Kulebrero1]

Originally Posted by RacingredGR86

Brake Pad Manufacturer (F/R): Carbotech
Caliper (F/R): OEM
Rotor Size (F/R - IE OEM or specify): OEM
Compound (F/R): XP10 front/ XP10 rear
Tires: OEM Michelin PS4 (215/40/18)

Feedback: After following bedding instructions, pads do screech/ squeal at low speeds when cold. However when warmed up they have good bite, little to no noise, and holds up well on the track.

Scores:
Dusting (1=high-10=low): 2
Cold bite (1=low-10=high): 4
Hot bite (1=low-10=high): 8
Modulation (1=low-10=high): 9
Noise (1=extremely loud-10=quiet): 4
Pad Lifespan (1=short-10=long): 1 HPDE, 2 AutoX and counting.
Does the brake dust with this combination damage the wheels/paint if not cleaned immediately? No
Brake ducts: No

I just finished my first HPDE event with the XP10s front and rear on a GR86 with stock everything except wheels/tires (245/40/17 RS4s). Horrible experience. Nothing about the XP10s felt good on track. They felt mushy after 2-3 laps. Significant fading after 4-5 laps. Money wasted. I’m glad to hear they worked fine for someone else, but I expected better performance for the price.

[CounterSpace Garage]

Originally Posted by Kulebrero1

I just finished my first HPDE event with the XP10s front and rear on a GR86 with stock everything except wheels/tires (245/40/17 RS4s). Horrible experience. Nothing about the XP10s felt good on track. They felt mushy after 2-3 laps. Significant fading after 4-5 laps. Money wasted. I’m glad to hear they worked fine for someone else, but I expected better performance for the price.

When the XP10s were first used on the FRS/BRZ in 2012, we realized that we had superior braking technique than most and subconsciously utilized brakes accordingly in each lap. It is an excellent intermediate brake pad, however, it can be easily overwhelmed with the newer tire compounds (which is significantly stickier than tires in 2012 and earlier).

In your case, it sounds like your talent is already exceeding what's possible with the XP10. You'll also need to monitor how you engage ABS in that regard as well. In terms of price point, the Carbotech swings at a very affordable price point. Better pads are available as you go up the price range.

[Xeron]

Brake Pad Manufacturer (F/R): Carbotech
Caliper (F/R): PP Brembo
Rotor Size (F/R - IE OEM or specify): PP Brembo
Compound (F/R): XP10
Tires: GT Radial SX2 (225/45/17)
Brake ducts: No

Feedback: front pads survived ~15 track days, rears still almost like new.

Zero issues on the track, tires overheat before brakes do. There was a bit of smearing on the rotors from time to time but it never affected braking performance. Also almost no rotor wear besides surface hairline cracking from the temperatures.

Initial bite is good, modulation is easy but also feels like too much range, due to some compression I guess.

Bedding wears off when driving on the street and they're starting to be noisy, but bed fast on the track.

Tracks driven - Laguna, Thill, Sonoma, BW time attack, mostly 2 hot laps / 1 cooldown lap pattern.


Brake Pad Manufacturer (F/R): CSG / Carbotech
Caliper (F/R): PP Brembo
Rotor Size (F/R - IE OEM or specify): PP Brembo
Compound (F/R): CSG C1 / XP10
Tires: GT Radial SX2 (225/45/17)
Brake ducts: No

Feedback: only did 1 track day with this setup but the difference in modulation range is crazy, I kinda like it but need some adjustments to stop hitting ABS all the time.

Downside is noticeable rotor wear, XP10 was much friendlier to the rotor. Could be also because C1s weren't properly bedded. I only slightly pre-bed them on hwy before the track.

Also worried about the balance a bit. Friend gave me C2 rears but I didn't install them yet and thinking may be I should do XP12/XP10 instead.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by Xeron

Brake Pad Manufacturer (F/R): Carbotech
Caliper (F/R): PP Brembo
Rotor Size (F/R - IE OEM or specify): PP Brembo
Compound (F/R): XP10
Tires: GT Radial SX2 (225/45/17)
Brake ducts: No

Feedback: front pads survived ~15 track days, rears still almost like new.

Zero issues on the track, tires overheat before brakes do. There was a bit of smearing on the rotors from time to time but it never affected braking performance. Also almost no rotor wear besides surface hairline cracking from the temperatures.

Initial bite is good, modulation is easy but also feels like too much range, due to some compression I guess.

Bedding wears off when driving on the street and they're starting to be noisy, but bed fast on the track.

Tracks driven - Laguna, Thill, Sonoma, BW time attack, mostly 2 hot laps / 1 cooldown lap pattern.


Brake Pad Manufacturer (F/R): CSG / Carbotech
Caliper (F/R): PP Brembo
Rotor Size (F/R - IE OEM or specify): PP Brembo
Compound (F/R): CSG C1 / XP10
Tires: GT Radial SX2 (225/45/17)
Brake ducts: No

Feedback: only did 1 track day with this setup but the difference in modulation range is crazy, I kinda like it but need some adjustments to stop hitting ABS all the time.

Downside is noticeable rotor wear, XP10 was much friendlier to the rotor. Could be also because C1s weren't properly bedded. I only slightly pre-bed them on hwy before the track.

Also worried about the balance a bit. Friend gave me C2 rears but I didn't install them yet and thinking may be I should do XP12/XP10 instead.

This is going to be my next setup after my 10/8 combo wears out.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Xeron

Also worried about the balance a bit. Friend gave me C2 rears but I didn't install them yet and thinking may be I should do XP12/XP10 instead.

With ABS disconnected my PP Brembo brakes are overbiased to the front with CSG Spec C2 pads front and rear. If anything I would want the rear pads to have a higher coefficient. I think lower-coefficient rear pads is a bad idea with the PP brembos, you're just going to overuse the fronts more and underutilize the rears.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ZDan

With ABS disconnected my PP Brembo brakes are overbiased to the front with CSG Spec C2 pads front and rear. If anything I would want the rear pads to have a higher coefficient. I think lower-coefficient rear pads is a bad idea with the PP brembos, you're just going to overuse the fronts more and underutilize the rears.

I use C1 front C2 rear, personally

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I use C1 front C2 rear, personally

Interesting! Do you still get front lockup first with no ABS? I might try that next year. I went back to running with ABS this year and at most tracks it worked perfectly fine. But at Watkins Glen I got warning lights so I pulled the fuse before incurring a repeat of 2019 incident. Very weird but my ABS just can't deal with Watkins Glen specifically...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Interesting! Do you still get front lockup first with no ABS? I might try that next year. I went back to running with ABS this year and at most tracks it worked perfectly fine. But at Watkins Glen I got warning lights so I pulled the fuse before incurring a repeat of 2019 incident. Very weird but my ABS just can't deal with Watkins Glen specifically...

Depends on how I apply the brakes.... CSG BM4 front, base rear.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Depends on how I apply the brakes.... CSG BM4 front, base rear.

Ah, does that setup give you too much front bias?

Stock pp/brembo setup has a surprising amount of front bias not running ABS, would be nice to get more braking out of the rears to forestall front lockup.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Ah, does that setup give you too much front bias?

Stock pp/brembo setup has a surprising amount of front bias not running ABS, would be nice to get more braking out of the rears to forestall front lockup.

Bias is actually quite right! Because the C1 and C2 ramp differently, the stagger allows me to essentially control which end of the car dictates lockup (abs) by my brake input ramp.

As a whole, the C1/C2 stagger will allow you to potentially get more use out of the rear.

You may also want to consider C1/C11, as that stagger is specifically designed to utilize more of the rear via more response, without having too much rear friction.

[downshiftxlr8]

Brake Pad Manufacturer (F/R): CSG
Caliper (F/R): AP Racing Sprint / Factory
Rotor Size (F/R - IE OEM or specify): 299x32mm/OEM
Compound (F/R): C21/C2
Tires: Falken RT660

Feedback:
Definitely requires proper bedding , needs some heat in them before they start to work properly but when they work , they work well. The initial bite of the C21s required some self development on my braking technique which has made me a better driver. Zero Fade at least on all the socal tracks.Overall I really like this setup but might try the C11's on the rear next year.

Scores:
Dusting (1=high-10=low): 5
Cold bite (1=low-10=high): 7
Hot bite (1=low-10=high): 10
Noise (1=extremely loud-10=quiet): 1 (I don't run these on the street, my ears would bleed)
Pad Lifespan (1=short-10=long): 10 (Its insane how much life ive gotten out of these pads, the rears are probably going to last well into next year for me. I replaced the fronts mid year so 8-10 events on a set for the C21s and there was still some life left in the ones that I did take off so I keep them around as like an emergency spare.)
Does the brake dust with this combination damage the wheels/paint if not cleaned immediately? (Y/N) Dunno I wash my car right after the track
Brake ducts: Nope

[villainous_frx]

Brake Pad Manufacturer (F/R): Gloc
Caliper (F/R): OEM non-Brembo
Rotor Size (F/R - IE OEM or specify): OEM size DBA slotted
Compound (F/R): R12/R6
Tires: 245/40 RS4

Feedback:
The pad cut is pretty poor, all 8 pads are different shapes and they dragged on the rotors until I sanded them down to fit in the caliper properly. Cold bite is like hitting a brick wall and sounds like a city bus stopping, so definitely not a street driving combination. Once warm they quiet down and you're able to modulate far better.

Scores:
Dusting (1=high-10=low): 3
Cold bite (1=low-10=high): 10
Hot bite (1=low-10=high): 10
Modulation (1=low-10=high): 8
Noise (1=extremely loud-10=quiet): cold-1, hot-6
Pad Lifespan (1=short-10=long): Est 9 - So far ~20 events and still a lot of life left.
Does the brake dust with this combination damage the wheels/paint if not cleaned immediately? Unsure, have ceramic coated wheels and wash wheels after every event.
Brake ducts: N

[Will_]

Brake Pad Manufacturer (F/R): Endless
Caliper (F/R): OEM
Rotor Size (F/R - IE OEM or specify): OEM
Compound (F/R): MX72 Plus front/rear
Tires: OEM Michelin PS4 (215/40/18) & Champiro SX2 (245/40/17)

Feedback: A very well behaved hybrid pad. Easy to modulate on track, never experienced fade. Good linear pedal feel. Not too noisy for daily use, a little squeal at low speeds. Similar to DS2500 in noise and dust levels. Not a strong initial bite, brake pressure increases smoothly with pedal pressure. Felt similar to Pagid RSL29.

Scores:
Dusting (1=high-10=low): 4
Cold bite (1=low-10=high): 3
Hot bite (1=low-10=high): 5
Modulation (1=low-10=high): 9
Noise (1=extremely loud-10=quiet): 7
Pad Lifespan (1=short-10=long): 6 HPDE days, 5000 daily miles. They are at 5mm now.
Does the brake dust with this combination damage the wheels/paint if not cleaned immediately? No
Brake ducts: No

Extra: A bit disappointed I only got 6 days (probably could have got 1 more) out of them as I really enjoyed the characteristics. Trying CSG CP Spec pads next, which appear similar in behavior, but hoping for longer life.