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Old 04-27-2017, 04:14 PM   #57
Tcoat
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Originally Posted by Tanuki View Post
Because Edward Deming the American taught them how to.
Oh god why didn't I think of saying this!?


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Old 04-28-2017, 09:26 PM   #58
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"Asian"

Might I point out Nissan isn't really all that Japanese nowadays, if you want to get technical about it?

Also the Ford Focus ST I was looking at yesterday had 40% parts content from the USA.
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:17 PM   #59
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Just to be clear I have not bought an American car since The Great Pontiac Sunfire Debacle of 95 (was the wife's car). That things was a disaster from day one but it does not mean that I paint all American cars with the same brush for the rest of eternity.
I think this is indicative of American companies' problems. They have the engineering, but only get to show it in halo products like the Vette. The accountants then gut the budget cars that most people buy, making them crap. I haven't personally heard of too many happy (long term) Neon, Sunfire, Cavalier, Escort, Focus, Fiesta owners, Malibu, Taurus, etc... owners

But it's the mass market cars that earned the Japanese their fantastic reputations, Civics, Corollas, Imprezas, Camrys, Accords, etc...
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:21 PM   #60
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I think this is indicative of American companies' problems. They have the engineering, but only get to show it in halo products like the Vette. The accountants then gut the budget cars that most people buy, making them crap. I haven't personally heard of too many happy (long term) Neon, Sunfire, Cavalier, Escort, Focus, Fiesta owners, Malibu, Taurus, etc... owners

But it's the mass market cars that earned the Japanese their fantastic reputations, Civics, Corollas, Imprezas, Camrys, Accords, etc...
Which is funny since the list you said are all now made in North America.
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:25 PM   #61
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Which is funny since the list you said are all now made in North America.
It's the engineering and management behind them that is important, though.

Edit: also tariffs.
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Last edited by Dimman; 04-28-2017 at 11:26 PM. Reason: Edit.
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:29 PM   #62
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When i was in Japan a wise man told me,
"The product is cheap and nasty because the customer is cheap and nasty".
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:34 PM   #63
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Everybody knows it's because they have smaller hands.


more precise
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Old 04-29-2017, 12:10 AM   #64
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Everybody knows it's because they have smaller hands.


more precise
Again, when i was in Japan , the same wise man did not know the difference
between precious and precise.
He said,
'Our engineering is very precious to build a good product."
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Old 04-29-2017, 12:30 AM   #65
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Again, when i was in Japan , the same wise man did not know the difference
between precious and precise.
He said,
'Our engineering is very precious to build a good product."
I dunno. Maybe he meant it. I could see his point.
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Old 04-29-2017, 12:51 AM   #66
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My experience working in the industry has lead me to believe that it is an attention to detail that the Japanese have that have lead them to such success in automobiles. Fit and finish, noises, and general "feel" of operating the vehicle are obsessed over to a near unhealthy level. Americans have the attitude of not really caring about the little things. They focus instead on big numbers and features. What is missed is that little things amass into very big things eventually. Any little noise or gap or jarring function subconscious make you dislike the car.

That being said, the last 20 years has changed the industry drastically. There is very little difference in the overall product from all the OEMs. Everyone knows what everyone else is doing, and everyone is more or less doing the exact same things. It is now more about reading the market and pushing the limits of "lean". There is very little passion left in the industry.
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Old 04-29-2017, 01:02 AM   #67
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I dunno. Maybe he meant it. I could see his point.
No , the Japanese people have a hard time translating into english.
I am not being disrespectful because i have a much harder time translating into Japanese.
These are examples of signs around the factory.
Do not catch for bringing from this part (don't lift this).
Door open may people damage (be careful when opening door).
Anyway precision is a very precious skill to achieve.
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Old 04-29-2017, 01:10 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by SlowCarFast View Post
My experience working in the industry has lead me to believe that it is an attention to detail that the Japanese have that have lead them to such success in automobiles. Fit and finish, noises, and general "feel" of operating the vehicle are obsessed over to a near unhealthy level. Americans have the attitude of not really caring about the little things. They focus instead on big numbers and features. What is missed is that little things amass into very big things eventually. Any little noise or gap or jarring function subconscious make you dislike the car.

That being said, the last 20 years has changed the industry drastically. There is very little difference in the overall product from all the OEMs. Everyone knows what everyone else is doing, and everyone is more or less doing the exact same things. It is now more about reading the market and pushing the limits of "lean". There is very little passion left in the industry.
I used to work in a clean room fab. Japanese vendors and tool installers always measured twice for every one action. Their American counterparts usually just eye balled things and corrected anything that was off as they went along. It's just their approach in a manufacturing environment, however I have no insight into the auto manufacturing industry.
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Old 04-29-2017, 02:53 AM   #69
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I used to work in a clean room fab. Japanese vendors and tool installers always measured twice for every one action. Their American counterparts usually just eye balled things and corrected anything that was off as they went along. It's just their approach in a manufacturing environment, however I have no insight into the auto manufacturing industry.
That was how auto did it 20 years ago. As I have said before in this thread you could now get dropped into a Ford or Toyota assembly plant and not know the difference. I have seen massive changes in the industry in the last 26 years.

Back when I started in the parts industry (1991) I worked for a major tier one facility that made HVAC motors for several car manufactures. We used to check the adhesion of the magnets by hitting the case with a hammer. If the magnets stayed in they were good and if they fell out they were not. It was anything but measurable or quantifiable. There is not a hope in hell that would fly now and the various companies we make parts for could show up at any point and ask to see the checks for every part we made (and they do show up on a regular basis).
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Old 04-29-2017, 04:11 AM   #70
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Thats such a great QA test hit it with a hammer.
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