Potential Cause of rumored GR86’s blown engine? Seal packing(RTV) was peeled off

[BioRebel]

What they're saying (kind of) tracks with some video evidence discussed in another thread
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151509


The hard part is not everyone installs an oil pressure sensor + logger (and the car doesn't come with one), so gathering enough evidence isn't easy. I'd love to see the logs from that one friend who supposedly had some hard data.

EDIT:
Here's a channel with a bunch of videos and a nice oil pressure overlay. It looks like right-hand turns that force the oil towards the front of the pan are the biggest culprits.
https://www.youtube.com/@nostreetracing86/videos

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by BioRebel

What they're saying (kind of) tracks with some video evidence discussed in another thread
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151509


The hard part is not everyone installs an oil pressure sensor + logger (and the car doesn't come with one), so gathering enough evidence isn't easy. I'd love to see the logs from that one friend who supposedly had some hard data.

EDIT:
Here's a channel with a bunch of videos and a nice oil pressure overlay. It looks like right-hand turns that force the oil towards the front of the pan are the biggest culprits.
https://www.youtube.com/@nostreetracing86/videos

That thread and video(same person) don't conclude anything. From the EJ, first gen FA20, to the new FA24, we know boxers oil starve. It's a data point, and good info, but there is no conclusion on how long an engine would last due to the oil starve from G forces. If his car were to blow up and there was no RTV in the pickup, then we have something.


Video:
Over the course of the video, they do mention 10+ cars between the known ones through news articles and social media, to people with gen 2's that they personally known that have blown up.

Zygrene seems to think that it has a lot to do with G force and running 200TW tires or better. He also says he has no plans to drop the oil pan until his warranty is almost up so not to void the warranty. Overall a lot of the video is just anecdotal info from what we all have already heard.

[vindiesel]

I listened to the whole video… all speculation “bro talk from bolt on bros”

[BioRebel]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

That thread and video(same person) don't conclude anything. From the EJ, first gen FA20, to the new FA24, we know boxers oil starve. It's a data point, and good info, but there is no conclusion on how long an engine would last due to the oil starve from G forces. If his car were to blow up and there was no RTV in the pickup, then we have something.

I'm not sure what you're going for here. I posted evidence that there is probably an issue related to oil starvation during specific high-g situations. And you're dismissing it unless I can prove it WASN'T RTV?


CM Autohaus video where they show some more data (albeit from the same guy who owns the channel I linked)

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by BioRebel

I'm not sure what you're going for here. I posted evidence that there is probably an issue related to oil starvation during specific high-g situations. And you're dismissing it unless I can prove it WASN'T RTV?

I am saying it is not conclusive enough info to say that oil starvation from G forces on the track is what is causing these to blow up so quickly.

How much oil starvation do you think is enough to cause one of these to blow up in 20K miles? For reference on my first gen I see single digit oil pressures one PER LAP at my favorite track and I have 100K miles and tons of track days on that engine. Probably 45 of those days at that specific track.

[vindiesel]

Step 1. Hook up accurate oil pressure gauge

Step 2. Take 2022-2023 gr86 brz in stock form

Step3. turn on go pro/ take Dramamine

Step 4 enter skid pad hold max g’s and max rpm but not at redline and record oil pressure

[Arthur-A]

Video is stupid. Three soyjacks soyjacking in desperate need for more views. Zero valuable information. Typical "youtubers", spit. They should be talking about latest iphones rather than cars.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I am saying it is not conclusive enough info to say that oil starvation from G forces on the track is what is causing these to blow up so quickly.

How much oil starvation do you think is enough to cause one of these to blow up in 20K miles? For reference on my first gen I see single digit oil pressures one PER LAP at my favorite track and I have 100K miles and tons of track days on that engine. Probably 45 of those days at that specific track.

would the type of starvation also effect things?

i mean to say that the oil sloshing around the motor, yes the pickup stops picking up, but if the oil sloshes too hard to the left side over the right side of the motor, maybe that increases wear on the journals?

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by soundman98

would the type of starvation also effect things?

i mean to say that the oil sloshing around the motor, yes the pickup stops picking up, but if the oil sloshes too hard to the left side over the right side of the motor, maybe that increases wear on the journals?

I don’t know. We do know that right turns are worse then lefts on the fa24. I think duration of pressure loss and engine load at the time of the pressure loss are probably biggest factors to additional wear but I couldn’t tell you how much. I know what I experience in my gen 1 is very short and off throttle.

[Arthur-A]

I wonder if anyone tried "overfilling" by 1 quart to eliminate starvation. When I had a 2008 WRX I always added an extra quart of oil. Also, I saw an interview on KA24DE engine, where a guy mentioned that he tried baffled oil pans but they didn't really help, whereas adding an extra quart of oil helped with oil starvation on a stock oil pan. Maybe this simple solution could work for FA24 as well?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Arthur-A

I wonder if anyone tried "overfilling" by 1 quart to eliminate starvation. When I had a 2008 WRX I always added an extra quart of oil. Also, I saw an interview on KA24DE engine, where a guy mentioned that he tried baffled oil pans but they didn't really help, whereas adding an extra quart of oil helped with oil starvation on a stock oil pan. Maybe this simple solution could work for FA24 as well?

Isn't too much oil (as in an extra quart) just as potentially harmful as not enough, and actually more likely to cause issues with frothing and increased pressure forcing oil in places it shouldn't be?

I'm sure it varies by engine design but it's not something I'd encourage or do.

[Petah78]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Isn't too much oil (as in an extra quart) just as potentially harmful as not enough, and actually more likely to cause issues with frothing and increased pressure forcing oil in places it shouldn't be?

I'm sure it varies by engine design but it's not something I'd encourage or do.

I could be wrong on this but I think the real danger of too much oil is the oil hitting the rotating assembly causing aeration (cavitation).

[BioRebel]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I am saying it is not conclusive enough info to say that oil starvation from G forces on the track is what is causing these to blow up so quickly.

How much oil starvation do you think is enough to cause one of these to blow up in 20K miles? For reference on my first gen I see single digit oil pressures one PER LAP at my favorite track and I have 100K miles and tons of track days on that engine. Probably 45 of those days at that specific track.

I'm honestly not sure. And from what I've read over the past few days your FA20 should've had some issues by now if you're seeing single digit pressure that frequently so who knows.


Honestly my view on this has changed since I posted that because there's been 2 confirmed "street only" incidents this week.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by BioRebel

I'm honestly not sure. And from what I've read over the past few days your FA20 should've had some issues by now if you're seeing single digit pressure that frequently so who knows.


Honestly my view on this has changed since I posted that because there's been 2 confirmed "street only" incidents this week.

I am honestly surprised I haven't had more issues given I have blown up an FA20 before.