BRZ/GR86 driving differences

[jeepmor]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Ive come to like steering wheel buttons. And that mainly has to do with the location of the infotainment screen.

In my X1 the screen is high up and obviously controlled by Idrive. But my Scion IM is in the dash like the twins, but its kind of parallel with the steering wheel. Its actually NOT a good spot, continuously having to look down at it whereas the bimmer is in the sightline and i just need to glance right.

With the twins infotainment screen located somewhat similar to the as the iM, i would imagine the same issue will arise. And thats where the steering wheel buttons come in. I feel safer using it because changing songs and interacting with the screen takes my focus away from the road for quite a lot longer than i would like. Its almost like looking down at a phone while driving....

Obviously i cant tell if sitting lower down and having the center stack not as tall helps makes the sightlines any more paralell with where your eyes are, but that is my take on steering wheel buttons.

Nice ergonomics comment. I had a wisenheimer response, but I'll skip it. I don't like that stuff on the steering wheel of a sports car. My radio and nav isn't important enough to bother when I'm getting it on. The recent supercharger addition has me ignoring it all anyway. Set the Spotify upon getting in the car I rarely touch it other than to forward through a few songs.

But you look at an F1 steering wheel with more buttons and no radio. I digress.

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by Transport3r

The zenki GT86 was like that too. I remember test driving an FR-S and halfway through a light drizzle started. I was coming from a 400hp 335i with 265s in the back, and the FR-S was almost impossible to drive straight with my expectation of grip. The front end never washed out, but the back end always stepped out when you were thinking about going near the throttle mid corner. The BRZ needed a bit more tossing to break loose.

I ended up choosing the BRZ, not related to the handling differences though. Although I always found it interesting that a simple spring change made the character between the cars so significantly different feeling.

It’s always been the focal point of design on this car. Docile ability to toss it around and enjoy the classic FR driving experience and for owners to grow in skills with the car. It is what the old AE86 stood famous for, and it was the goal to replicate that sort of joy translated into a 2012 car. It’s been that way ever since it was a figment of imagination as we started work on it in the fall of 2006.
So absolute speed and grip was secondary, and primary was to make the car behave very well to driver inputs of all sorts, and to be predictable and “tossable” with a lot of confidence.

For the first original 2013’s Toyota side was the leading project manager so this was the focus, and Subaru engineers followed along to learn the culture of such cars and owners typical around the world. Hence we did see a little confusion and even some internal resistance to push the BRZ. But in Japan things sort of went well and both cars took off with fanfare and equally with lots of shared marketing resources. Subaru did fine tune the BRZ with slightly more well-rounded behaviors as that was their engineering culture and flavor.

Fast forward to 2016, as the project started for the Second Generation slated for 2021. Toyota expended resources of GR to WEC and WRC Racing, and a huge chunk of cash at that by then with WRC also including developing budget for the GR Yaris . Also the GR Supra was at the height of needing resources in Germany for product planning, testing, and preparation for launch.

Hence the 86/BRZ was mainly handed off to Subaru this time, with few new key engineers from Toyota working at their base camp. By this time, Subaru engineers and product planners were much more confident in the line, with proven sales records of the first BRZ and moreover, by completely understanding what the 86-ness was all about. The new set of designers went to work with much clearer vision of what this car is, and should be.

These are the reason you see much more Subaru induced styling cues on this second generation. Gone are the styling keys influenced by the 2000GT from first gen. Many more Boxer shapes, and eclectic but thought through bits.
The first car had lots of polar friction from two firms trying to bend their individual cultures, but this second car the focus and goals were reached much more seamlessly. I guess that’s how Japanese firms work though. 1 They’re very loyal to their firms. 2. Nothing is smooth sailing till there’s a comfortable track record from doing something unusual. 3. Once the team is on a set path, firms excel at making something near perfectly.

Having said this, the new car addresses tons of things they took notes from the first. In a sense Chief Engineer Tada’s job was to set the course in 2007. Now that it’s set and there’s a clear lineage for this, he’s moved on and a new younger team are in charge to improve what was learned in first 8 years. This from culture, ownership life, as well as features and mechanical details.
They weren’t assigned to reinvent it. Both companies have top CEO’s who loves this product now. I think both bosses are happy with the product, and even has his or her very personal driving preference character still designed in, different characters. It’s not often that a large car maker’s CEO has such personal involvement in fine tuning a car. And not many car companies have a CEO possessing 17 years experience being a test driver, and also possess an FIA International Class A Racing license.

As for me, being an observer and consult, watching this car go from clean paper in the autumn of 2006 to today just prior to launch of baby #2, it’s been a very dear car for me, and will be one that shaped a decade of my life and more.
It’s neat to see this forum active and I’m really happy for all of us.

It’s also clear why BRZ and GR86 still have distinct final tuning differences to this day, and catering at such fine taste difference. It’s so subtle that it’s catering these differences almost only to those who love these cars at great depth.
It’s a great thing in 2020’s. It’s rare too, I think.

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by Moto-P

It’s always been the focal point of design on this car. Docile ability to toss it around and enjoy the classic FR driving experience and for owners to grow in skills with the car. It is what the old AE86 stood famous for, and it was the goal to replicate that sort of joy translated into a 2012 car. It’s been that way ever since it was a figment of imagination as we started work on it in the fall of 2006.
So absolute speed and grip was secondary, and primary was to make the car behave very well to driver inputs of all sorts, and to be predictable and “tossable” with a lot of confidence.

For the first original 2013’s Toyota side was the leading project manager so this was the focus, and Subaru engineers followed along to learn the culture of such cars and owners typical around the world. Hence we did see a little confusion and even some internal resistance to push the BRZ. But in Japan things sort of went well and both cars took off with fanfare and equally with lots of shared marketing resources. Subaru did fine tune the BRZ with slightly more well-rounded behaviors as that was their engineering culture and flavor.

Fast forward to 2016, as the project started for the Second Generation slated for 2021. Toyota expended resources of GR to WEC and WRC Racing, and a huge chunk of cash at that by then with WRC also including developing budget for the GR Yaris . Also the GR Supra was at the height of needing resources in Germany for product planning, testing, and preparation for launch.

Hence the 86/BRZ was mainly handed off to Subaru this time, with few new key engineers from Toyota working at their base camp. By this time, Subaru engineers and product planners were much more confident in the line, with proven sales records of the first BRZ and moreover, by completely understanding what the 86-ness was all about. The new set of designers went to work with much clearer vision of what this car is, and should be.

These are the reason you see much more Subaru induced styling cues on this second generation. Gone are the styling keys influenced by the 2000GT from first gen. Many more Boxer shapes, and eclectic but thought through bits.
The first car had lots of polar friction from two firms trying to bend their individual cultures, but this second car the focus and goals were reached much more seamlessly. I guess that’s how Japanese firms work though. 1 They’re very loyal to their firms. 2. Nothing is smooth sailing till there’s a comfortable track record from doing something unusual. 3. Once the team is on a set path, firms excel at making something near perfectly.

Having said this, the new car addresses tons of things they took notes from the first. In a sense Chief Engineer Tada’s job was to set the course in 2007. Now that it’s set and there’s a clear lineage for this, he’s moved on and a new younger team are in charge to improve what was learned in first 8 years. This from culture, ownership life, as well as features and mechanical details.
They weren’t assigned to reinvent it. Both companies have top CEO’s who loves this product now. I think both bosses are happy with the product, and even has his or her very personal driving preference character still designed in, different characters. It’s not often that a large car maker’s CEO has such personal involvement in fine tuning a car. And not many car companies have a CEO possessing 17 years experience being a test driver, and also possess an FIA International Class A Racing license.

As for me, being an observer and consult, watching this car go from clean paper in the autumn of 2006 to today just prior to launch of baby #2, it’s been a very dear car for me, and will be one that shaped a decade of my life and more.
It’s neat to see this forum active and I’m really happy for all of us.

It’s also clear why BRZ and GR86 still have distinct final tuning differences to this day, and catering at such fine taste difference. It’s so subtle that it’s catering these differences almost only to those who love these cars at great depth.
It’s a great thing in 2020’s. It’s rare too, I think.

Thank you for that detailed response, I love the insight this gives us into the process!

To me this car and the GR Supra are the 2 freshest breaths of air in an increasingly stale automotive market. I am so thankful that there is a team at Toyota and Subaru that truly cares about the chassis dynamics of a car that they created a car that is so much fun to drive to us, an increasingly rare type of enthusiast.

I have followed the development of this car from the first time I heard about it in late 2009. Seeing it go through 2 concepts, launch, a facelift, and now a second launch, is very special to me, when these days even the most historically driver focused brands (BMW for one) stray from the driving experiences that we want.