PTUNING 4-1 Full T304 SS Equal Length Double-Slip Race Header (200+whp 93 pump gas)

[Arcadien Angel]

I'm going to wait a bit to see how this one plays out. A 40hp increase at the wheels seems a little too good to be true, but

1) With PTuning's reputation, they haven't given us a reason to believe they are lying.

2) These numbers ARE with the header, 3" catback, and a tune.

So I'm going to go ahead and get my hopes up here. Not pre-ordering, but definitely on the list against FT86 SpeedFactory's UEL Header for a future buy. I would like to see it tested on other Dynos and different exhaust setups.



Sent by my Artificial Intelligence.

[DarkSunrise]

I'm not a dyno expert so I may be off-base here, but was this with the "Dynojet emulation" mode switched on?

[ecko04]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I'm not a dyno expert so I may be off-base here, but was this with the "Dynojet emulation" mode switched on?

~ +10-12%

[ecko04]

Originally Posted by EMS Guy

Um. Alight. I am not drinking that cool aid. Let me just say this. I think the product looks good. Well made. Great work there. However, I don't believe your accusations. You may fool some of these youngsters here with this, but I have been modding cars probably longer than you have been alive. Even on my LS with long tubes and an exhaust and tune, I BARELY saw 40whp gains. That equated to a 10% power gain increase on a 400hp motor. Adding 40hp to the wheels is adding 25% power increase to a motor making 160HP. Cmon guys. Really? Unless Enzo Ferrari or some F1 engineer designed this header and exhaust, I do not believe it. Sounds like someone is messing with the base dyno values.



Can we do a real header shootout on someone else's dyno?

^ LOL

Once you made the statement in bold, I can no longer take you seriously.

[buddy32]

Originally Posted by EMS Guy

...Cmon guys. Really? Unless Enzo Ferrari or some F1 engineer designed this header and exhaust, I do not believe it...

Maybe the Ptuning crew should look into Ferraris or going F-1.............

[ptuning]

Originally Posted by EMS Guy

Um. Alight. I am not drinking that cool aid. Let me just say this. I think the product looks good. Well made. Great work there. However, I don't believe your accusations. You may fool some of these youngsters here with this, but I have been modding cars probably longer than you have been alive. Even on my LS with long tubes and an exhaust and tune, I BARELY saw 40whp gains. That equated to a 10% power gain increase on a 400hp motor. Adding 40hp to the wheels is adding 25% power increase to a motor making 160HP. Cmon guys. Really? Unless Enzo Ferrari or some F1 engineer designed this header and exhaust, I do not believe it. Sounds like someone is messing with the base dyno values.

Can we do a real header shootout on someone else's dyno?

If you're referring to a B18 LS motor, then you're comparing apples to oranges. If you're talking about a 2-valve LS-X V8 engine, then you're comparing apples to tacos. I'm not sure what shortcomings you had with the header you designed for your LS motor, but that has nothing to do with what's going on here.

The factory header is catted so replacing it with a decent header and overpipe front-pipe will net you some gains. A bone stock car with a good tune will yield about 10whp on it's own.

Neither LS engines use variable intake and exhaust cams. This will in fact make a difference, if you know how to tune the FA20 engine and you're doing so using an actual dyno and not a butt dyno.

For the record, PTUNING will NEVER pad dyno numbers. As a manufacturer and a tuner shop, that's how you end up getting caught with your pants down once the product gets released to the public.

Customers will inevitably purchase and dyno tune the header on their own using different dynos around the country and around the world.

Also, unless you're currently collecting your social security check or cashing in on your AARP benefits right now, I'm not sure sure that you're that much older or wiser than many others here, including myself.

- Toan

[ptuning]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I'm not a dyno expert so I may be off-base here, but was this with the "Dynojet emulation" mode switched on?

These numbers are true DD Dyno numbers. There is no "x" factor, fudge factor here.

- Toan

[ecko04]

In for the LOLz

[ptuning]

Originally Posted by OICU812

+1 I'd like to understand any negatives at all on this matter.

The ceramic header coatings that we dabbled with back in the day all seemed fine for daily driving and/or drag racing, but for HPDE or track events, the coatings seem to fade and eventually flake off over time. Mind you, they were on turbo headers/manifolds and not used in an NA application. These cars were also properly tuned, so we weren't dealing with abnormally high egts, etc.

Once the coating flakes off, it's all downhill from there. It doesn't affect performance, but it makes the coated part look pretty gnarly.

Given that our header is 100% T304 stainless steel (not 409), you could conceivable clean and polish up the header if you ever went to sell your car and do a part out. The chances of the ceramic coated part looking new after years of hard use is not so likely.

We would definitely not sway any customer away from ceramic coating, if he/she wished to do so. We would just prefer going with a heat shielding route like the factory does.

- Toan

[industrial]

I don't know why these numbers are being questioned. There are a few 200whp dynos of various NA cars on this site. Hell, one tuner says they can get 200whp with just a tune which I find a bit hard to believe. 200whp with a full exhaust and tune? That's believable and it's been done with other similar setups.

[GT86meMR2]

Originally Posted by industrial

I don't know why these numbers are being questioned. There are a few 200whp dynos of various NA cars on this site. Hell, one tuner says they can get 200whp with just a tune which I find a bit hard to believe. 200whp with a full exhaust and tune? That's believable and it's been done with other similar setups.

i don't think the 200 whp is being questioned, because 200whp on a dyno means nothing but the 40whp increase from stock to to full exhaust and header on the same dyno is meaningful and that is being questioned. i dont think ptuning would influence their numbers though because like they say eventually people will test it for their selves. and there have been enough jdl header equiped cars with the same kind of gains so it's not impossible.

[EMS Guy]

I am thrilled to see we all have a sense of humor about this.

For the record, I am the ripe age of 51 and NEARING retirement in the next 10 years or so if I can stop blowing foolish money on cars like what I am driving and talking about right now.

Secondly, my "LS" reference was to a Corvette I had owned and sold 2 years ago. Not some Honda B series you where speaking about. True it's a different animal, but performance is performance. The platform changes, however the core fundamentals in a gasoline combustion engine still hold true. It's still suck, squeeze, bang and blow. All the same there. It's all about efficiency.

In my LS3, I had long tube headers and an exhaust with a tune by one of the top C5/C6 tuners in the country and made just shy of 45HP gains with a tune and the mods. Again, that's a 10-15% increase over stock WITH a tune. So to say a 25% gain, that's a little tough to swallow. That is what I am saying.

In my time I have seen all of the talk and hype in many cars that I have followed and owned including an NSX, which again I sold back in 2008. There was a huge battle of turbo systems between LoveFab (whom at the time was the undisputed king of NSX turbos in my opinion) versus another company out of the west coast (name evades me**old person problems**) and they both claimed their kits where better. All kinds of jaw jacking going on for months. An NSX meet occurred where the 2 companies faced off at an agreed equal turbo size, similar kit, same dyno fresh engines and same boost level. Needless to say, the LoveFab's competitor was caught with their pants down. At the same boost level, they made (if I recall now, been sometime) like 75HP LESS than Cody's monster. So the moral of the story is that inside dyno numbers don't always equal or equate to outside numbers. That story showed it all.

So I guess what I am getting at is......can we see said product dyno'd before and after on another person's dyno other than yours? If the gains remains the same, then you spent $75 and an hour of time and now have won over PLENTY of potential header and exhaust sales such as myself (for the header) and claim your fame, which is a small price to pay to shut the crowd up.

Just my respective 2 cents. Don't get me wrong, I love what you did with your turbo. Truly sold on it, but I need to be realistic with funds due to several external factors.

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by EMS Guy

In my LS3, I had long tube headers and an exhaust with a tune by one of the top C5/C6 tuners in the country and made just shy of 45HP gains with a tune and the mods. Again, that's a 10-15% increase over stock WITH a tune. So to say a 25% gain, that's a little tough to swallow. That is what I am saying.

random question as much as apple/orange as the comparison already is. did the corvette numbers also include removing an inline cat?

[EMS Guy]

Originally Posted by G-Man

random question as much as apple/orange as the comparison already is. did the corvette numbers also include removing an inline cat?

actually it involved removing 2 factory cats (one on each bank) to a race cat-less setup.