Koenigsegg Germera - The Practical Family Hypercar

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

But will you have the battery to run it?


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Discharging the battery depends on a number of different things. A larger battery could be discharged faster without degrading the battery as much or generating as much heat, but a larger battery isn't inherently needed with a larger motor. Case in point, the Model S Raven vs the Model S Plaid. They both have a 100kWh battery pack, yet Plaid has three motors instead of two, and it is able to use that extra horsepower for far better performance, so it isn't just some theoretical "flywheel" horsepower. The Plaid is 163lbs lighter despite having the extra motor, so that plays a little into the extra performance, but it is mostly the change in motor/battery configuration. Mileage suffers.

Lucid's motors are also more energy dense than Tesla's and now this. If they can get the battery weight down, a future EV might be more powerful and weigh less than a comparable ICE vehicle.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Discharging the battery depends on a number of different things. A larger battery could be discharged faster without degrading the battery as much or generating as much heat, but a larger battery isn't inherently needed with a larger motor. Case in point, the Model S Raven vs the Model S Plaid. They both have a 100kWh battery pack, yet Plaid has three motors instead of two, and it is able to use that extra horsepower for far better performance, so it isn't just some theoretical "flywheel" horsepower. The Plaid is 163lbs lighter despite having the extra motor, so that plays a little into the extra performance, but it is mostly the change in motor/battery configuration. Mileage suffers.

Lucid's motors are also more energy dense than Tesla's and now this. If they can get the battery weight down, a future EV might be more powerful and weigh less than a comparable ICE vehicle.

Yeah but 7 of those motors?!?! You could obviously run it, but not at capacity.

There is also more to discharging then what the cell structure and battery chemistry can handle. I don't know what the term is, but I have heard that the nickel coated anode/cathodes start to have an issue with high charge/discharge currents where they get a buildup similar to when a lead acid battery sulfates.

The current battery packs they have are pretty well optimized already. I don't anticipate any large gains unless a change in battery chemistry or material changes. They have gotten the controls pretty well nailed at this point too.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Yeah but 7 of those motors?!?! You could obviously run it, but not at capacity.

There is also more to discharging then what the cell structure and battery chemistry can handle. I don't know what the term is, but I have heard that the nickel coated anode/cathodes start to have an issue with high charge/discharge currents where they get a buildup similar to when a lead acid battery sulfates.

The current battery packs they have are pretty well optimized already. I don't anticipate any large gains unless a change in battery chemistry or material changes. They have gotten the controls pretty well nailed at this point too.

The Model S Plaid has a 100 kWh battery and the Rimac Nevera has a 120 kWh battery, yet the Plaid makes 1,020hp and 1,050tq and the Nevera makes 1,914hp and 1,741tq, which is almost 87% more horsepower and 66% more torque with only a 20% larger battery. Does the Nevera have more powerful motors? Does the Nevera discharge or have more amps to discharge the battery faster, and maybe the Plaid has more in series and less in parallel, or maybe they are using different chemistry that allows the Rimac to discharge faster. Maybe it is a longevity difference. From what I have read, Tesla tends to use batteries that need to discharge slower, but that helps them have better range, which is why the batteries need to be big to get the power, or something.

Yes, seven motors would require a large battery for range and to power the motors, but I'm not really suggesting anyone needs seven motors. I'm just saying these motors are far more energy dense, so it makes little sense beyond range and noise to add an ICE engine.

There is plenty of battery tech in the works that will make them more energy dense and recharge/discharge faster. We aren't done.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The Model S Plaid has a 100 kWh battery and the Rimac Nevera has a 120 kWh battery, yet the Plaid makes 1,020hp and 1,050tq and the Nevera makes 1,914hp and 1,741tq, which is almost 87% more horsepower and 66% more torque with only a 20% larger battery. Does the Nevera have more powerful motors? Does the Nevera discharge or have more amps to discharge the battery faster, and maybe the Plaid has more in series and less in parallel, or maybe they are using different chemistry that allows the Rimac to discharge faster. Maybe it is a longevity difference. From what I have read, Tesla tends to use batteries that need to discharge slower, but that helps them have better range, which is why the batteries need to be big to get the power, or something.

Yes, seven motors would require a large battery for range and to power the motors, but I'm not really suggesting anyone needs seven motors. I'm just saying these motors are far more energy dense, so it makes little sense beyond range and noise to add an ICE engine.

There is plenty of battery tech in the works that will make them more energy dense and recharge/discharge faster. We aren't done.

Rimac uses different battery chemistry then Tesla, who knows what they are using as far as ancillary materials to the batteries construction. Both or more exotic then I am familiar with besides some basic info you can glean by looking at a spec sheet. I know we aren't done with battery tech, I just don't expect the progress that we have seen to continue.

I knew your 7 motor comment wasn't literal, I was mostly just poking fun. I just thought it would be cool to take something like this and build a custom hybrid setup. I always thought the Onpoint car was super cool.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Rimac uses different battery chemistry then Tesla, who knows what they are using as far as ancillary materials to the batteries construction. Both or more exotic then I am familiar with besides some basic info you can glean by looking at a spec sheet. I know we aren't done with battery tech, I just don't expect the progress that we have seen to continue.

I knew your 7 motor comment wasn't literal, I was mostly just poking fun. I just thought it would be cool to take something like this and build a custom hybrid setup. I always thought the Onpoint car was super cool.

There is a lot of battery tech, along with car tech for range.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/mer...-of-range.html

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...r-next-energy/

https://thenextweb.com/news/this-ev-...-lightyear-one

Discharge rate is similar to recharge rate. Plaid's batteries are designed for fast discharge and recharge, but many companies are working on faster recharging.

https://www.wired.com/story/charge-a...hats-the-plan/

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

There is a lot of battery tech, along with car tech for range.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/mer...-of-range.html

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...r-next-energy/

https://thenextweb.com/news/this-ev-...-lightyear-one

Discharge rate is similar to recharge rate. Plaid's batteries are designed for fast discharge and recharge, but many companies are working on faster recharging.

https://www.wired.com/story/charge-a...hats-the-plan/

Powertrain tech like that Merc is where I think more of the range will come from for a while. I am just not convinced on the increase in battery tech will get us the gains we have seen in the last 10 years on a mass scale. That startup battery was a an iron phosphate, would like to see it's performance in cold weather but that is the most promising one I gotten to read about.

Edit: Duh I know prismatic cells. I don't know why I spaced on those. I think the prototype I had from that company that tanked I was working with was a prismatic LFP.

[Irace86.2.0]

The wizards at Zoenigsegg have made a novel transmission and e-motor along with a V8 to produce a 2,300hp mega hybrid. No flywheel. 800hp e-motor that is smaller than the 3-cylinder option.

https://www.eggregistry.com/blog/the...emera-unveiled

[weederr33]

Is that manufacture artistry or is there really that much carbon fiber?!

[Irace86.2.0]

Both

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by weederr33

Is that manufacture artistry or is there really that much carbon fiber?!

koenigseggegegegegegegegegeg sort of pioneered the use of dry carbon fiber in a lot of cases. it really is part of why they cost so much.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Both

I feel that's not a valid answer

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by weederr33

I feel that's not a valid answer

I didn't think they were mutually exclusive.

If you mean to ask is that a carbon shell over cheaper and heavier materials for the sake of artistry or some type of fake looking carbon fiber for effect then no, that is the real deal, but besides the fact that carbon fiber is used to increase structural integrity, while keeping the car light, it is also used for the artistic effect. The weave pattern and direction is laid down with intention and artistry to be symmetrical, uniform and artistic.




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