Misconceptions of "rebuilt" vehicles

[Opie]

So to follow up and answer the question(s):

Yes, a magnetic beer cozy is a must when working on cars. I have to thank Dave-RoR for letting me know they exist.

To the question of the post. As Dave mentioned we started work on the White one yesterday, and honestly they will both need the exact same body parts replaced, the damage is that similar.
White Car: Bumper cover, Both Headlights & brackets, Upper Core Support, Hood, 1 Fender, Radiator, Condensor & misc trim bits.
Blue Car: Bumper cover, Both Headlights & brackets, Upper Core Support, Hood, 1 Fender (poss. both) & misc trim bits. Plus the airbag goodies; Dash w/Airbag, Driver Aibag, Both Front Seatbelts, Airbag Controller.

You've probably guessed that one of these cars has a completely clear title and the other is a "rebuildable" total loss.

Drum roll please, everyone guessed the wrong order though. The white car has a Rebuildable title, the blue car is a clean title. Makes no sense right?


So this is why that "Clear title" car you bought instead of the "Rebuilt title" car could have lived the exact same life. All depending on the skill/mood of an insurance adjuster and you may never know. So the point of this rambling? Every used car should be looked over carefully. If you are not an expert, have an expert inspect the car and make sure it is up to par. And just because a car has a "Rebuilt" designation, doesn't mean it's going to be trouble, it might be a much better car, and a better deal.

[Ernest72]

Like all things in life it’s a gamble. I have bought both used and new. So far I have been lucky. I have always thought about trying to get that cheap rebuildable car but figured it would bite me. This thread has me thinking that the inspection is really the key to the decision. Thanks.

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

C’mon get another one. You know you want to .

It’ll be more fun than your V8 Commodore.

Been there done that, and put a turbo on it

Whilst I do miss it I wouldn't get another Gen1, and to me the Gen2 look to "boy racer", well, the BRZ does, I don't think I've seen the new 86 yet

Plus I'm over the boxer engine, I had a 2015 STI prior to the 86, I honestly am not impressed wilth their characteristics

The big old V8 is serving its purpose quite well at the moment

I have been looking for a new old car to project but with the current covid tax, people are asking stupid money for things that I want

I'm holding out for a year or so now, I'll wait for the covid dust to settle, then I'll go lowball someone who really needs some cash, unless I can find someone with something I'm able to lowball now

[pope]

Originally Posted by Opie

Drum roll please, everyone guessed the wrong order though. The white car has a Rebuildable title, the blue car is a clean title. Makes no sense right?

Damn I just found this thread and I was going to guess the white one was the salvage and the blue one was clear because Dave recently said something about a blue clear title MI car in another thread.

To the point of why people distrust rebuilt titles, I think it’s a combination of general misunderstanding, as this thread details, but also the variability of what states require before issuing a rebuilt title.

Here in MI, cars currently need to be repaired, have an inspection done by a mechanic with state certifications relevant to the nature of the repairs, have paperwork (inspection report, receipts, rebuild application, etc) submitted to a state police inspector to (supposedly) verify the inspection met the required criteria and to verify the parts used in reconstruction were not stolen, then the state inspector has to inspect the vehicle to confirm the parts listed in receipt are in fact the parts on the rebuilt vehicle and that the car conforms to roadworthiness standards (blinkers and shit work), then finally it’s possible to get a rebuilt title issued. (oh, and the car can not be driven on the road until this process is completed which means trailering it various places unless you get lucky and find the rare inspector(s) willing to come to you.)

However, only a couple years ago, the process was much simpler. Repair vehicle, drive vehicle to the state police inspector with the application and receipts, police inspector verifies parts were not stolen and issues form required for SOS to issue rebuilt title.

Also, I don’t know which state(s) it is or was, but my understanding is that there is/was a loophole with at least one state where a person could mail a title from any other state simply claiming a vehicle was rebuilt and that state would issue a new title which could then be used to get a title in your own state and put a car back on the road without having done anything to repair it.

Given all this, I understand why people distrust salvage titles if they are not capable or interested in taking the time to verify a salvaged vehicle was repaired correctly, but for me buying a rust free southern car with minor front damage for $2.2k, spending another $3k fixing it, and still having ~$10k in the bank vs buying the same car with a clean title was a no-brainier.

[Opie]

Originally Posted by pope

Damn I just found this thread and I was going to guess the white one was the salvage and the blue one was clear because Dave recently said something about a blue clear title MI car in another thread.

That would be cheating

Originally Posted by pope

To the point of why people distrust rebuilt titles, I think it’s a combination of general misunderstanding, as this thread details, but also the variability of what states require before issuing a rebuilt title.

Here in MI, cars currently need to be repaired, have an inspection done by a mechanic with state certifications relevant to the nature of the repairs, have paperwork (inspection report, receipts, rebuild application, etc) submitted to a state police inspector to (supposedly) verify the inspection met the required criteria and to verify the parts used in reconstruction were not stolen, then the state inspector has to inspect the vehicle to confirm the parts listed in receipt are in fact the parts on the rebuilt vehicle and that the car conforms to roadworthiness standards (blinkers and shit work), then finally it’s possible to get a rebuilt title issued. (oh, and the car can not be driven on the road until this process is completed which means trailering it various places unless you get lucky and find the rare inspector(s) willing to come to you.)

However, only a couple years ago, the process was much simpler. Repair vehicle, drive vehicle to the state police inspector with the application and receipts, police inspector verifies parts were not stolen and issues form required for SOS to issue rebuilt title.

Florida is sorta in the middle of these two, they are more concerned that the parts used on the rebuild are not stolen, but the car must be fully repaired, have no idiot lights on and have all the safety equipment (airbags, seatbelts, etc.) working. This is why I said recommended that any pre-owned car be inspected. My wife and daughter sometimes drive the cars we rebuild so I wouldn't allow that if they weren't safe and reliable. We also are very upfront about the cars and share pictures of the damage and rebuild process. But I know not everyone has the same scruples as me & Dave.

Originally Posted by pope

Also, I don’t know which state(s) it is or was, but my understanding is that there is/was a loophole with at least one state where a person could mail a title from any other state simply claiming a vehicle was rebuilt and that state would issue a new title which could then be used to get a title in your own state and put a car back on the road without having done anything to repair it.

I've heard this, but no one can show me any proof it is true. Pretty sure it's urban legend at this point and was corrected years ago.

Originally Posted by pope

Given all this, I understand why people distrust salvage titles if they are not capable or interested in taking the time to verify a salvaged vehicle was repaired correctly, but for me buying a rust free southern car with minor front damage for $2.2k, spending another $3k fixing it, and still having ~$10k in the bank vs buying the same car with a clean title was a no-brainer.

Yep, I don't reget me doing it either!

[Transport3r]

Counterpoint: most insurance companies in the US will not insure a salvage titled car.

That kills the prospect right there.

[pope]

Originally Posted by Transport3r

Counterpoint: most insurance companies in the US will not insure a salvage titled car.

That kills the prospect right there.

I’ve seen this claim many times, but my family has had numerous rebuilt cars over the years and have never had a problem with insurance.

When I rebuilt my BRZ, my current insurance (AAA) simply required I bring it to one of their branch offices to be inspected prior to insuring it. They walked around the car on the trailer verifying the body was repaired, copied down the vin, and went inside to enter it in the computer. Took less than 10 minutes.

[dpfarr]

If I knew who or how the car was rebuilt, no problem.

I bought my is300 back from my insurance after it was totaled out and continued to have it insured by the same insurance co while I rebuilt it.

[Opie]

Originally Posted by Transport3r

Counterpoint: most insurance companies in the US will not insure a salvage titled car.

That kills the prospect right there.

You are correct, no insurance company will insure a "Salvage titled" car. Because in order to be road legal it has to be a "Rebuilt titled" vehicle. Almost all insurance companies will insure a rebuilt vehicle, usually after they inspect it. Only a very few will not.

Insurance write-off's have several different title designations when they are sold at auction:
Certificate of Destruction: Means vehicle can never be used tagged or registered for use on public roads again. Has to be scrapped, used for parts, or designated a race car. No one will insure.
Salvage-Rebuildable: Means car was deemed a total loss, but damage was less than a certain % of the car's value. Each state sets the % limit. 75% to 80% is normal. Vehicle can be repaired if desired. Cannot be registered for use on public roads or insured UNTIL it has been fully repaired and issued a branded (Rebuilt) title by the state it was rebuilt in.
Rebuilt: Means it was previously deemed a total loss per the states guidelines, but has been repaired, inspected and is now legal for road use.
Clean:Means there is no branding on the title.

[platinumEX]

Originally Posted by Transport3r

Counterpoint: most insurance companies in the US will not insure a salvage titled car.

That kills the prospect right there.

I’ve insured multiple rebuilt-salvage vehicles with 5 different insurance companies without being denied by any. One of the companies requested I send them pics but that’s it.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by pope

Also, I don’t know which state(s) it is or was, but my understanding is that there is/was a loophole with at least one state where a person could mail a title from any other state simply claiming a vehicle was rebuilt and that state would issue a new title which could then be used to get a title in your own state and put a car back on the road without having done anything to repair it.

Last I knew, Kentucky was the last state where you could still wash a title. It's a felony and all of that but still possible. I last checked like 8 years ago though soooo...

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Opie

You are correct, no insurance company will insure a "Salvage titled" car. Because in order to be road legal it has to be a "Rebuilt titled" vehicle. Almost all insurance companies will insure a rebuilt vehicle, usually after they inspect it. Only a very few will not.

Insurance write-off's have several different title designations when they are sold at auction:
Certificate of Destruction: Means vehicle can never be used tagged or registered for use on public roads again. Has to be scrapped, used for parts, or designated a race car. No one will insure.
Salvage-Rebuildable: Means car was deemed a total loss, but damage was less than a certain % of the car's value. Each state sets the % limit. 75% to 80% is normal. Vehicle can be repaired if desired. Cannot be registered for use on public roads or insured UNTIL it has been fully repaired and issued a branded (Rebuilt) title by the state it was rebuilt in.
Rebuilt: Means it was previously deemed a total loss per the states guidelines, but has been repaired, inspected and is now legal for road use.
Clean:Means there is no branding on the title.

LOL whatchu talking bout Willis? We literally insure every salvage title car we have before it gets a rebuilt title. The insurance has to be provided to the DMV to get an inspection date. Unless you plan to trailer it anyways. (obviously I'm not talking about COD titled cars.. although I do have one of those in the fleet too! haha)

Originally Posted by Transport3r

Counterpoint: most insurance companies in the US will not insure a salvage titled car.

That kills the prospect right there.

Absolutely false (but common misinformation). You might find the occasional insurance company that won't cover it but it's GREAT business for them to cover it. They can charge the same premiums but pay out ~67% of clean title value if it gets totaled again. I've never once found an insurance company that has cared. The most I've seen myself is that the insurance company wanted to look at it for a $0 deductible coverage (that I put on it for 10 days before inspection). They had no issues writing the policy after seeing the car. Hell I think I've had more salvage/rebuilt cars insured by State Farm than clean title cars now lol

[UT_BRZ]

Most insurance companies will insure salvage/rebuilt title cars, BUT will add a surcharge for doing so. No one mentions it since it usually is met with hostility.

It is crazy how much different loss types determine whether a car maintains a clean title versus a rebuilt title. For example, in Colorado, if you vehicle is totaled out due to hail damage, it maintains a clean title. That same hail storm and damage in Utah results in a rebuilt title. Obviously, most hail storms are cosmetic damage only unless it breaks glass and rain gets inside the dash and electrical.

[Opie]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

LOL whatchu talking bout Willis? We literally insure every salvage title car we have before it gets a rebuilt title. The insurance has to be provided to the DMV to get an inspection date.

I stand corrected, it's never been a problem getting insurance, so I forgot.

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Absolutely false (but common misinformation). You might find the occasional insurance company that won't cover it but it's GREAT business for them to cover it. They can charge the same premiums but pay out ~67% of clean title value if it gets totaled again. I've never once found an insurance company that has cared. The most I've seen myself is that the insurance company wanted to look at it for a $0 deductible coverage (that I put on it for 10 days before inspection). They had no issues writing the policy after seeing the car. Hell I think I've had more salvage/rebuilt cars insured by State Farm than clean title cars now lol

This, although different insurance companies handle rebuilt titles differently, Metropolitan Auto & Casualty (MetLife) insured my BRZ for full value with a rebuilt title when it was street legal, as well as the '13 Gray FR-S, '13 White FRS (#5) & '13 Gray BRZ I've had on my insurance. I've NEVER paid a surcharge for one either.

As a dedicated track car now my '13 BRZ has a policy from Hagerty that covers the car and race gear for agreed value from loss while being stored, or trailered to an event. Doesn't cover it if it is being operated under it's own power (street or on track).