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Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous


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Old 06-28-2018, 02:56 PM   #1
James Russels
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FI Questions - SBD vs. JDL

First off, apologies in advance if these questions have been asked elsewhere. I have done a thorough search and haven't found answers.

I am currently looking at turbo kits and have narrowed it down to SBD and JDL. My FRS is automatic transmission with stock internals/exhaust. I have very little mechanical experience, and no experience installing a turbo kit, but intend on doing this myself. Therefore, complexity of the kit/install is a consideration.

What I want out of the kit:
280-300 WHP
Maximum 10psi boost, preferably closer to 8
EL header
Ball bearing turbo, ideally dual scroll
Ceramic coating on the turbo manifold
Remain emissions compliant

It goes without saying that I'd like to save money where possible, but I am willing to pay more if it will result in a significant improvement in the quality of the product.

I have seen posts referring to the SBD kit as cheap quality, but I haven't seen any evidence supporting this. All accounts I've found from people who have the kit seem to be positive, and I can't find any negatives except for maybe boost creep and blowoff valve issues, which were supposedly fixed in newer versions of the kit. Does anyone have any specific examples of this kit going bad, or problems arising from it?

A
comparing the two kits mentions that with the JDL kit, you can swap out the turbo, while with the SBD kit, you cannot. Being able to swap the turbo is appealing to me, just in case I want to upgrade in the future. Is there truth to the statement that the fitment of the SBD kit is such that you cannot swap turbos?

I've also read that needing to mount a turbo (such as to the engine block in the SBD kit) is indicative of a poor/weak turbo housing. Is there truth to this statement? What problems, if any, would I have to worry about if this is true?

My last question is a little more general. Regarding tunes, are the tunes advertised in the kits just the ones that they supply? In other words, could I get a JDL kit (which says you need an Ecutek tune) and bring it to a tuner that uses different software? If I get the SBD kit, I was planning on getting an OFT in order to flash a basemap on it just to get it running, then take it to a dyno tuner later. Would this work? I assume the tuner would have the hardware and software necessary to do the tune, and could just charge me for any licenses required. Sorry for the newbie questions - I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how it all works.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for any input.
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Old 06-28-2018, 03:55 PM   #2
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the SBD is a blatent knockoff of the GReddy kit.

You'd need a specific tune for your kit. I don't recommend using a OTS tune with a turbo setup. At all.

- 280-300whp is possible, depending on your fuel.
- EL very possible
- Why ball bearing? Twin scroll has no effect for this platform.
- Ceramic is also available, and can also be DIY.
- The only emissions compliant turbo on the market is WORKS, and will not make 280-300whp at emissions compliant trim.

Here's a graph from my *journal bearing* GReddy T518Z turbo kit.




Grey = stock 2017
Green = 91 octane, 7psi tapering to 5.5psi
Pink = E70, 7psi tapering to 5.5psi
Orange = E70 12psi tapering to 10.5psi
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Old 06-28-2018, 05:08 PM   #3
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since you live in chicago... I can offer input on emissions.

I have a jdl kit and passed. depending on your tuner, EcuTek is the tuning software that you need and can disable certain codes to remain emissions compliant in chicago. You are allowed to have 1 system not ready. My evap system is not ready and I have zero cats, but still passed because my o2 system is "ready" but that's because my tuner disabled it. If you want EL, you can still get it with the JDL kit. I really like JDL because the endless amount of customization. I would highly suggest joining this group:

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...20kit%20owners

The nice thing with the JDL kit, it comes with a base garret turbo... something that SBD can't compare with. Yes you can swap turbos with the JDL... but why? You're causing more work for yourself. I have a GTX2860r and I have a 10 and 12psi map which make a little more power than what you are looking for on E80ish. I also have ID1050c injectors and DW65C fuel pump with a full exhaust. The turbo can flow up to 475hp theoretically:

https://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbo...tx2860r-gen-ii

You should be able to make that power goal on 10psi I would want to say maybe you'll be at 260-280, but I could be wrong. Once I went FI, I just upgraded everything so I "future" proofed the car to avoid to add on things as I go. It was more of a "one and done" type of install. I didn't want more work for myself.

The GT garret base turbo that comes with is good for 400hp or something like that? JDL offers coating in different colors. JDL and SBD share the same COLD side parts. (intercooler and charge piping). The craftsmanship and quality of the kit is top notch. I would highly suggest JDL over SBD. You'll easily get 280-300whp on the base JDL kit as long as you have the supporting mods, full exhaust, etc...

as far as tuning goes stay AWAY from OTS maps for turbo kits. I recommend HRI tuning. https://www.facebook.com/hrituning/
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Old 06-28-2018, 05:43 PM   #4
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Support companies that do R&D! If they can't afford to do it, who will?


I'd by JDL for that reason alone. It comes with instructions too!
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:12 PM   #5
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JDL is the way to go. It will cost a little more, but the end result will be far better for your dollar since you're not saavy yet with this stuff. JDL has a far less proprietary setup (as you've read) and can be modified to suit your needs
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Old 06-28-2018, 09:04 PM   #6
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Since you're in Chicago why not research p and l? Turbo kit, tuning, and respected service in your backyard.
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Old 06-29-2018, 01:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
You'd need a specific tune for your kit. I don't recommend using a OTS tune with a turbo setup. At all.
So maybe I was misunderstanding - the tunes they package with the kit aren't OTS (off the shelf, I'm assuming)? I was under the impression that anything short of an individualized tune on a dyno was off the shelf. What about remote tuning?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
- Why ball bearing?
For quicker spool up and longer lasting spool/quicker response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
Twin scroll has no effect for this platform.
Can you please elaborate on that? I thought the design of these by default (spacing of the exhaust pulses) was more efficient and resulted in quicker spool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
- Ceramic is also available, and can also be DIY.
A thermal insulation ceramic coating? I thought it required highly-specialized tools, like a plasma sprayer.

Sorry for all the questions, I'm now second guessing everything I learned, ha.
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Old 06-29-2018, 01:10 AM   #8
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I found this kit but didn't know they were Chicago-based. I'll definitely look into this more - thanks.
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Old 06-29-2018, 01:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Russels View Post
So maybe I was misunderstanding - the tunes they package with the kit aren't OTS (off the shelf, I'm assuming)? I was under the impression that anything short of an individualized tune on a dyno was off the shelf. What about remote tuning?

Remote tuning is fine. Just don't expect a generic tune to be healthy for your car, particularly with FI.

For quicker spool up and longer lasting spool/quicker response.

You want something with a very light impeller then, like a BW, or a G25

Can you please elaborate on that? I thought the design of these by default (spacing of the exhaust pulses) was more efficient and resulted in quicker spool.

Runners are way too long for any real benefit to be seen

A thermal insulation ceramic coating? I thought it required highly-specialized tools, like a plasma sprayer.

Meaning, you can get it ceramic coated by anyone you like.

Sorry for all the questions, I'm now second guessing everything I learned, ha.
Responses in bold.
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:51 AM   #10
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+1 to JDL.

SBD is a ripoff of the GReddy kit as previously stated. JDL is a trusted company that does their own research and make well known, high quality headers for our platform.
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Old 06-29-2018, 11:52 AM   #11
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Buy the JDL Kit, Jesse and pretty much anyone at JDL is VERY helpful.
The kits are all made in AZ and you can look at it and know it's quality.

If price is an issue join the JDL owner's facebook group I usually see people selling used kits, sometimes brand new kits.

Get you a GTX2867R or GTX2860R you'll love the instant response, I think they sell the new G Series turbos too now.

The biggest reason why I'm also telling you JDL is because on the Facebook group there's people that had SBD and switched over to JDL for reasons.

As far as emissions go you can run a catted front pipe and you should be fine. I don't know how strict Chicago is, but I can bet they're nowhere near as bad as CA from what I heard.
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