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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain. |
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02-13-2017, 04:35 AM | #43 |
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Captain Snooze: regarding (2) i recall seeing posts from few shop workers about crank bearings having short live for EJ & FA engines they had rebuilt or repair for cases where both lightweight CP & FW were installed. Rather soon at it. Something along the lines that only one of them should be installed, not both.
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02-13-2017, 08:49 AM | #44 |
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Fluidamper also claims 2lbs of rotating mass does not behave as rotating mass...
I know nothing of harmonics in an engine, but I see only that harmonics exist on all 3 pulleys, with similar magnitude, but in different orders and rpm. And the OEM pulley seems worst of the bunch on that 2nd order line... But what's actually destructive? No idea. I tried researching but haven't found any materials... It could be NVH is the only reason for a damper pulley. Of course, the OP's wobbly install would definitely be bad. C |
02-13-2017, 09:46 AM | #45 |
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My ej has lightweight crank pulley and flywheel, I always thought those were just rumors. Been 20k miles so far at around 300 whp, on an engine with 80k since rebuild
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02-13-2017, 09:53 AM | #46 |
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One of those posts of different experiences. Another. Later cites info from other shop doing even more rebuilds and with "similar experiences". It's my only car, and one i like & want to use for long time .. preferring to play on safe side.
Last edited by churchx; 02-13-2017 at 10:04 AM. |
02-13-2017, 12:18 PM | #47 |
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02-13-2017, 04:32 PM | #48 | |
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1. The OEM commits considerable resources into understanding how each component responds to the environment in which it operates. The customer is not privy to the mounds of information collected but it exists. 2. I agree with you on this point but that does not mean I think it's a good idea.
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02-13-2017, 05:05 PM | #49 | |
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Speaking of which. There seems to be a lot of discussion about the pros/cons of a light weight crank shaft pulley but I don't seem to read much about the impact of a light weight flywheel on the harmonics of a crankshaft. I am hypothesising given the much greater mass of the flywheel it would play a greater role in crankshaft damping/harmonics. I am totally out of my depth here.
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02-13-2017, 07:09 PM | #50 |
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As someone considering getting a lighter flywheel at a later date, I too would like to know how a lighter flywheel affects damping on stock cp.
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02-13-2017, 08:51 PM | #51 |
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I hear the mass of a flywheel allows it to absorb some vibration.
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02-13-2017, 08:59 PM | #52 | ||||||||
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But you've struck a good point, there are engines that are way out of balance and need all sorts of things to make it not blow up. Some people decided that since some engines need this that must mean all of them do, which is of course nonsense. There can be no clear failure of pulley's as it is not something people would do and never modify anything else. People do claim they have seen ej's and fa20dit's with failures in cars that happen to have lightweight pulley's among a bunch of other mods as well. Of course the problem is we are seeing failures in both engines in completely stock cars as well. Quote:
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I hate when people say the stock way is the best way, instead of the way they compromised for everything because they have so many other goals and qualifications other than making the car as sporty and fun to drive as possible. While the aftermarket has that one goal and can easily cost a heck of a lot more than the stock part it replaces without issue. |
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02-13-2017, 11:53 PM | #53 |
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" More complexity changes things, however that article I posted trying to sell that so called damper proves everything has vibrations, and even the fancy expensive aftermarket damper sold as smoothing everything out actually just changes the vibrations and has more vibrations than the stock ones. "
Man, are you reading the same article? Because it actually says the opposite. Or is it again based on your extensive experience? Alternative facts? Look I get it, it might be a marketing spin, but considering Fluidampr has been around for years, had stellar results on trucks and cars, and been tested independently by quite a few places, i tend to believe them instead of your personal uneducated opinion. No disrespect, just a choice. Here is another one that might interest you. http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...dent-Test.aspx |
02-13-2017, 11:56 PM | #54 |
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Here is an educated answer from an engineer:
The crankshaft damper has nothing to do with engine balance and vibrations. Motion and oscillation of the powertrain, as an assembly, is addressed by your engine mounts, transmission mounts, and potentially roll restrictors. The purpose of a crankshaft damper is to reduce the angular twist / deflection of the crankshaft. Combustion creates pressure. Pressure becomes load into the connecting rod which creates torque on the crankshaft. That torque creates deflection of the shaft as it's not infinitely stiff. Depending on the material, journal offset, length of the shaft, and loads created in the cylinders you can see several degrees of angular deflection in the crankshaft. I've seen an OEM crankshaft which displayed 7° of deflection without a damper. With the damper it was under 2°. The mass of the crank damper and the stiffness of the spring element (the rubber part) are vital to the effectiveness of the damper. They control the resonant frequency of the damper and impact the effective damping. If you change the mass or change the spring stiffness you change the frequency at which it operates. If you don't have enough mass, even at the correct frequency, you don't provide sufficient damping. An incorrectly tuned damper could actually make things worse." |
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02-14-2017, 12:15 AM | #55 | |
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02-14-2017, 12:27 AM | #56 |
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This is a generalised explanation that may or may not have ramifications for the FA20 engine. Does the the FA20 crank twist 7 degrees with a lwcp? No, it does not. I am suggesting that broad sweeping statements cannot be attributed to every particular example. The most twist I could see with a lwcp from that Fluidampr article was 0.37 of a degree. I have no idea if this is significant.
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