Would you prefer that the FRS had a "real" engine?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by 3nl

So OP thinks being being able to feel the torque dip makes you a princess, but apparently it's super manly to be sad because your engine isn't pretty looking...

It's too bad about the 987 and 981...terrible little cars, cause of their ugly, stupid flat engines...it just looks like...a box of parts just thrown together

Shit!
You know what that looks like?

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by stugray

My god... that's an amazing looking car!!!! Any vid?

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Originally Posted by Demandred7

For me this is
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59dHABgEAIw"]Best of Subaru Impreza WRC97-2000 tarmac action - with pure engine sounds - YouTube[/ame]

Boxer engine sound so~~~~~~~~~~~ amazing when it mix with tires squealing, BOV, Anti-lag, dirt/pebble hitting fender & ppl cheering. To me, that shows what boxer engine is made out of!

...but everyone have their own opinion

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Shit!
You know what that looks like?

Really? Your pic reminds me of this engine lol


& btw, if anyone who doesn't know, that's boxer engine by Ferrari (H12). They try to make it great boxer engine... but they didn't get near good as Porsche or even Subaru (IMO).

[ic-racer]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

Reading a thread on the GRM board on FRS ownership. While the joys of driving are unanimous, the lack of love for the boxer is pretty strong from those that own the car.

So, I thought to bring the question over to FRS central...Would you prefer that the Twins had a non-boxter engine?

My unjustified opinion after 3 years is that I wont ever buy another car with a Subaru engine. Not that it has done me bad, but I just dont like it and time is not making me any fonder.

And before anyone spews chapter and verse from The Book of Subaru about CG being ruined: don't bother because unless you move the engine to the roof, the difference would not be noticeable.

Boxer engine is one of the main selling points for me. One-third of the engine in my other car (which is really just an upgraded Berlinetta Boxer with red cam covers).

[Kostamojen]

I wouldn't have bought this car if it didn't have a Boxer e gine. This is exactly the engine I wanted... 200hp, high-strung Subaru 2-liter with direct injection, timing chain and a top mounted oil filter.

[rice_classic]

I think a 2.0, 2.2 or 2.4L Inline 4 would have been ideal and would have provided plenty of room for double arm suspension.

I'm not the biggest fan of the FA20, and while I know I've been spoiled by Hondas engines over the years, the FA20 seems very unrefined. The 200HP is plenty of power for me but the NVH of this engine, the layout and power delivery are below expectations along with the silly go-forward-before-you-go-back header layout (but I understand packaging restrictions). Folks can go on and on about the CoG but an inline 4 with proper double arm suspension would be superior to this.

I too bought this car despite the engine.

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I think a 2.0, 2.2 or 2.4L Inline 4 would have been ideal and would have provided plenty of room for double arm suspension.

I'm not the biggest fan of the FA20, and while I know I've been spoiled by Hondas engines over the years, the FA20 seems very unrefined. The 200HP is plenty of power for me but the NVH of this engine, the layout and power delivery are below expectations along with the silly go-forward-before-you-go-back header layout (but I understand packaging restrictions). Folks can go on and on about the CoG but an inline 4 with proper double arm suspension would be superior to this.

I too bought this car despite the engine.

I don't agree with all of OPs points (don't think the flat layout is what the issue is), but I agree just like you, I got the car despite its engine.

I find it ridiculous that the OP gets attacked for having his own opinion. I think I made a similar post awhile back where I explicitly stated I love the car and can't think of any other car I would rather buy, but I don't like the engine.

Then somehow I got attacked by the hordes and was called a troll, when I have been a contributing member of the forums for the last 3 years of ownership. So, strange given the fact that the majority of other car enthusiast and media members have shared the same opinion as the OP.

Some earlier said this has been discussed over and over again, but in actuality it usually just turned more into insults to people who share OP's opinion than a real discussion. A horde mentality that the fa20 is the best engine and you are wrong to think otherwise.

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

I don't agree with all of OPs points (don't think the flat layout is what the issue is), but I agree just like you, I got the car despite its engine.

I find it ridiculous that the OP gets attacked for having his own opinion. I think I made a similar post awhile back where I explicitly stated I love the car and can't think of any other car I would rather buy, but I don't like the engine.

Then somehow I got attacked by the hordes and was called a troll, when I have been a contributing member of the forums for the last 3 years of ownership. So, strange given the fact that the majority of other car enthusiast and media members have shared the same opinion as the OP.

Some earlier said this has been discussed over and over again, but in actuality it usually just turned more into insults to people who share OP's opinion than a real discussion. A horde mentality that the fa20 is the best engine and you are wrong to think otherwise.

When posting on this forum, you need to keep in mind that for many this is their first new car or the attainment of a dream. Most things that are not flattering to the marque are treated as personal attacks. Just the nature of the beast, been here since the cars came out and I don't expect anything will ever change.

[stugray]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

with the silly go-forward-before-you-go-back .

I always assumed that the "go forward before" part of that was only to make installing a turbo easier for the consumer.

My other boxers dont "go forward before going back".

Yeah and Boxer engines suck. Those Testarossa engineers were clueless.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

I find it ridiculous that the OP gets attacked for having his own opinion.

He wasn't attacked for having an opinion.

At first he was attacked for expressing that opinion like a jackass. When you start out implying that the car doesn't have a "real" engine in it, you're just begging to be smacked down. Then he was attacked for getting all butt-hurt when people didn't agree with him.

In other words, he threw the first punch, and now he's crying because people hit back. Nothing more than a fucking troll.

[driftguy]

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

.
So, strange given the fact that the majority of other car enthusiast and media members have shared the same opinion as the OP.

Who? What media members? What car enthusiasts that actually DROVE the car? The overwhelming majority here disagrees with the OP, that's clear. I've read numerous media reviews praising the engine. Where's this majority you speak of?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

Some earlier said this has been discussed over and over again, but in actuality it usually just turned more into insults to people who share OP's opinion than a real discussion. A horde mentality that the fa20 is the best engine and you are wrong to think otherwise.

I think anybody who says this engine is perfect is an idiot, it has drawbacks but nearly every time it gets discussed the only realistic solution proposed is some mythical I4 that simply doesn't exist, there isn't a real alternative to the FA20 being built right now to my knowledge. To me that makes the FA20 the best engine for the car. If you've got an alternative 2.0L (or less) NA engine that makes 100hp/L with a low c.g. that gets good gas mileage I'm all ears. All those factors have played a part into making this car as good as it is, sacrificing one of them could have big ramifications to the bottom line price, it's sales figures, and performance.

Points to @rice_classic for pointing out that the macpherson struts could have been ditched with an inline layout, but then again how many Toyota sports cars don't have Macphersons? Certainly Subaru has been relying on them for decades so that would be a non-Subaru component of the design? IMO drivers have been working around subpar suspensions for decades (cough mustang cough), I'll take the lower c.g.

If I had any complaint about a flat four it'd be how silly it is for a 2.0L four cylinder to have two timing chains, two heads, and four camshafts. Much heavier than a mythical I4.

[wheelhaus]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

When posting on this forum, you need to keep in mind that for many this is their first new car or the attainment of a dream. Most things that are not flattering to the marque are treated as personal attacks. Just the nature of the beast, been here since the cars came out and I don't expect anything will ever change.

There is a lot of immaturity on this board, for sure. But to be honest, your dislike of all boxer engines seem to stem from superficial reasons, hearsay, and paranoia. Anyone with a logical head on their shoulders will consider this approach irrational.

Of course a message board full of people who actually own the car will have more positive things to say about it than another board full of enthusiasts of a different platform. People gravitate to what they like and that's fine, but don't hate on others opinions.

The engine isn't perfect, no engine is apparently, but it's pretty damn good at what it does. Throw a catback on it and the sound gives it a whole new character. Subaru are just as reliable as any other engine maker, and plenty of Subarus go well into the 200k+ mile range. The flat layout does introduce some issues, but they're minor, and far from catastrophic flaws.

Instead of plain hating boxers altogether because they don't have the same appeal as some sexy V8 with sculpted intakes and flowing headers, why not look for things to appreciate?

[stugray]

I should also point out that boxer engines are the preferred engine for small aircraft up to ~400 hp.
That is due in large part to it's inherent reliability.
Anyone who has been to a aircraft museum would know that the boxer layout has been used in more IC vehicles than almost any other.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by wheelhaus

Subaru are just as reliable as any other engine maker, and plenty of Subarus go well into the 200k+ mile range. The flat layout does introduce some issues, but they're minor, and far from catastrophic flaws.

Especially the naturally aspirated ones...