NA first drive days for GR86 first week of August

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

I would wait on the Z, unless you are up for a new car and a Z guy. I just think it’s going to be so similar to the last one and mainly cosmetic with more power. But I am a handling guy more than a muscle straight line guy. Not to say when I see one in the flesh I won’t like it. Always liked a Z, so not raining on the parade, just realistic.

Certainly planning to wait for reviews before buying. Drilling down into the details, it seems Nissan is making a number of changes to the chassis and suspension, and the new engine is a peach. I am somewhat hopeful about the car.

[spike021]

Originally Posted by Veloist

Agreed, I am looking forward to the ones who have had a 1st Gen, an S2000, or even a Lotus Elise. So that pretty much includes Savage Geese, Everyday Driver, Engineering Explained, even looking forward to Matt Maran. Bummed about Matt Farrah though that was one I was really looking forward to as well.

I've said it here so many times, Everyday Driver should not really be trusted with reviews of the car. Todd (I think) had one and every time he did a video he'd do a horrible job of showing it off. There was at least one video where he drove it in such a way that of course it looked powerless. It was like a straight incline in 5th gear going like 35mph or something.

[racingfool]

Originally Posted by spike021

drove it in such a way that of course it looked powerless.
It was like a straight incline in 5th gear going like 35mph or something.

Originally Posted by RZNT4R

it'll climb big hills in 6th at 1500 just fine.

[RZNT4R]

Originally Posted by racingfool

Engineering Explained kinda touched on this in his review. While every other journo ragged on the old engine for the torque dip and how the new engine had a much lower torque peak, the original engine still made nearly all of it's peak torque below the dip.

That's why I don't mind the torque dip. When I'm just driving around it's fine, I'm always under it and drives like a completely normal car (if not netter thanks to the aggressive gearing). If I'm just having a no stress recreational drive I like to stick it in the drip because I like the change in sound coming out on the upper end. And if I'm white knuckling it, I'm always above.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by ayau

i would like to hear randy pobst's opinion on the car's on-track characteristics than some of these amateur drivers.

Thomas from TH is a track instructor and a skilled driver. Not Randy Pobst level, but not a complete amateur either. If Thomas makes an observation about a car’s handling, it carries more weight than the genuine amateurs.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by Zandermannnn

Agreed. I was trying to say that you can't put the Z in the same class of car as the 86 or a Cayman or even a Supra. All of those cars are attempting to be true sports cars at different budgets.

To me, the Z is more of a GT/Performance Car.

This isn’t accurate or logical at all. It makes no sense. All these cars are low, 2 door, RWD sportscars. The Supra and Cayman are entirely logical competitors to the Z based on seats, size, weight, and engine. The Z is the cheapest alternative of that trio, and slightly less performance than the Cayman or Supra (but far more performance than the Miata or 86) is to be expected. But of course it is still a sportscar.

More similar to a muscle car than a Supra or 86. The the curb weight and handling characteristics will be closer to the previous gen than what some people are assuming.

Why does everyone think the Z is an abnormally heavy car and ignore the actual weight of the other 6 cylinder sportscars they claim are in another weight class? We don’t know the new Z’s weight, but the outgoing 370Z (1465kg) was actually 40kg lighter than the Supra (1505kg) and about 60kg heavier than a Cayman GTS at 1405kg (to compare the V6 Z to the flat-6 version). The Mustang GT (1770kg) is over 300kg heavier than the 370Z by comparison!

Handling? 370Zs have pulled .99g on the skidpan and turn, brake and handle as a sportscar should. When they first came out they went head to head with the 987 Cayman, and compared very favourably at the time (the Z was more powerful and slighter quicker 0-100, but the Cayman out handled the Z, as you’d expect from a sportscar costing so much more). The journalists comparing them never doubted the Z was a genuine sportscar. The fact it was more powerful than the Mustang V8 of the era is a nice bonus, but it was never a muscle car.

The 370z was also still lagging behind in handling compared to the alpha chassis Camaro and even the Mustang.

Have you driven a regular Mustang GT (no super expensive GT350) and a 370Z (Sport or Nismo) back to back? I have. The Z is 300kg lighter, you can feel that weight difference instantly, and the Z completely out handles the Mustang. Here in Australia the 370Z, especially the Nismo, consistently puts out better lap times in the hands of track drivers than Mustang GTs (we don’t get the GT350 or other special versions) despite the power deficit. Also worth noting re value, the Nismo Z was significantly cheaper in Australia than the cheapest Mustang GT - I think it was different in the USA where V8 Mustangs are a lot cheaper.

Without working some serious magic, I still think other cars are a better option whether you prefer power or handling.

You’re welcome to your opinion, but it really sounds like you are just repeating a bunch of forum hate on the Z, rather than trying to objectively compare it to other cars in the sportscar class. You incorrectly claim it is not a sportscar like the Cayman or Supra because of weight and handling, yet I easily showed you with actual facts that it is only slightly heavier than a GTS Cayman and is actually lighter than a Supra.

Now I don’t know what the new Z will be like. It depends on a range of factors we are uncertain about, such as how much weight the car has gained by moving to the new TT engine, and how the replacement of the old hydraulic steering with electric steering will work (the electric steering in the Q50/60 was not well regarded). But let’s try to be fair and accurate instead of just repeating tired old forum talking points that aren’t based on objective facts.

[Zandermannnn]

Originally Posted by Red-86

This isnÂ’t accurate or logical at all. It makes no sense. All these cars are low, 2 door, RWD sportscars. The Supra and Cayman are entirely logical competitors to the Z based on seats, size, weight, and engine. The Z is the cheapest alternative of that trio, and slightly less performance than the Cayman or Supra (but far more performance than the Miata or 86) is to be expected. But of course it is still a sportscar.

I'm using the same marketing language as Nissan themselves. The 370z is also way behind all of those cars at limit handling. Given that it's using a chassis that's almost 20 years old now, calling it a modern sports car is being generous. If any RWD coupe is a sports car to you, I don't have a problem with that. I just find it hard to call it a sports car when the prior car fell apart when you pushed it past 8/10ths.

Originally Posted by Red-86

Why does everyone think the Z is an abnormally heavy car and ignore the actual weight of the other 6 cylinder sportscars they claim are in another weight class? We donÂ’t know the new ZÂ’s weight, but the outgoing 370Z (1465kg) was actually 40kg lighter than the Supra (1505kg) and about 60kg heavier than a Cayman GTS at 1405kg (to compare the V6 Z to the flat-6 version). The Mustang GT (1770kg) is over 300kg heavier than the 370Z by comparison!

It's because those cars are making much more IRL power with similar weight. The GT is also on a whole other level torque wise even compared with the new Z.

Originally Posted by Red-86

Handling? 370Zs have pulled .99g on the skidpan and turn, brake and handle as a sportscar should. When they first came out they went head to head with the 987 Cayman, and compared very favourably at the time (the Z was more powerful and slighter quicker 0-100, but the Cayman out handled the Z, as youÂ’d expect from a sportscar costing so much more). The journalists comparing them never doubted the Z was a genuine sportscar. The fact it was more powerful than the Mustang V8 of the era is a nice bonus, but it was never a muscle car.

Unfortunately skidpad numbers don't directly translate to enjoyable limit handling. Throw decent tires on any semi-sporty car and you will get the same numbers. I also don't disagree that it was a good car when it came out. It has just been a long time since then and I don't think they've done enough to catch up based on what they have shown us so far.

Originally Posted by Red-86

Have you driven a regular Mustang GT (no super expensive GT350) and a 370Z (Sport or Nismo) back to back? I have. The Z is 300kg lighter, you can feel that weight difference instantly, and the Z completely out handles the Mustang. Here in Australia the 370Z, especially the Nismo, consistently puts out better lap times in the hands of track drivers than Mustang GTs (we donÂ’t get the GT350 or other special versions) despite the power deficit. Also worth noting re value, the Nismo Z was significantly cheaper in Australia than the cheapest Mustang GT - I think it was different in the USA where V8 Mustangs are a lot cheaper.

Agree that it will out handle a base Mustang GT. I don't know many people who are tracking Mustang GT's without PP1 or PP2 options unless they modified the suspension though. Any of those will beat a 370z. Base Camaro SS will do the same along with any of the 1LE Camaro's with smaller engines.

Originally Posted by Red-86

YouÂ’re welcome to your opinion, but it really sounds like you are just repeating a bunch of forum hate on the Z, rather than trying to objectively compare it to other cars in the sportscar class. You incorrectly claim it is not a sportscar like the Cayman or Supra because of weight and handling, yet I easily showed you with actual facts that it is only slightly heavier than a GTS Cayman and is actually lighter than a Supra.

You're welcome to your opinion as well. If you want to call it a sports car go right ahead. I think you are going to be disappointed if you are expecting it to be competitive with those cars though.

Originally Posted by Red-86

Now I donÂ’t know what the new Z will be like. It depends on a range of factors we are uncertain about, such as how much weight the car has gained by moving to the new TT engine, and how the replacement of the old hydraulic steering with electric steering will work (the electric steering in the Q50/60 was not well regarded). But letÂ’s try to be fair and accurate instead of just repeating tired old forum talking points that arenÂ’t based on objective facts.

I'm sorry if you are offended that I'm not optimistic about a retuned FM chassis that is going to carry even more weight. I would love it if Nissan knocks it out of the park with this car at this price point. I just don't see it happening.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Zandermannnn

The 370z is also way behind all of those cars at limit handling. -

-I just find it hard to call it a sports car when the prior car fell apart when you pushed it past 8/10ths.

This is the Z’s biggest flaw IMO. It’s why I bought a BRZ over a 370Z

[Zandermannnn]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

This is the Z’s biggest flaw IMO. It’s why I bought a BRZ over a 370Z

A sports car that gets worse the harder you push it isn't much of a sports car. Maybe the new one will be better but Nissan isn't too trustworthy these days.

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by Red-86

Why does everyone think the Z is an abnormally heavy car and ignore the actual weight of the other 6 cylinder sportscars they claim are in another weight class? We don’t know the new Z’s weight, but the outgoing 370Z (1465kg) was actually 40kg lighter than the Supra (1505kg) and about 60kg heavier than a Cayman GTS at 1405kg (to compare the V6 Z to the flat-6 version). The Mustang GT (1770kg) is over 300kg heavier than the 370Z by comparison!

Because it was never as light as they said it was. They gave dry weight for the vehicle. And it only got heavier over the years with safety, tech and heat managment. When it came out it was never 1465kg, not driving at least. 1525 kg full of fluids was more realistic; for a base model. End of generation run Nismo models were well over 1568 kg.

[Blighty]

Only problem with the Z (paper wise) is the lack of a LSD in its cheap 'sports' offering.

I mean, why?

Is it just to reach a price point? I think that continues to degrade the cars lineage.

The full fat car though, terrific! I'm not a fan of the front end - particularly the headlights and just TOO box grill, massive fan of the rear. Real Z in that.

[timurrrr]

I thought we already had a topic where folks compare the 2nd gen with the Z's?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

When it came out it was never 1465kg, not driving at least. 1525 kg full of fluids was more realistic; for a base model.

This is correct. When C/D weighed their 2009 370z with sport package, it came out to 3360 lbs (1527 kg).

[Kona61]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

This is correct. When C/D weighed their 2009 370z with sport package, it came out to 3360 lbs (1527 kg).

For me it’s the combination these. Also, I’m pretty convinced by some of what Nissan PR people have said that the base will land at 40k. That’s a total base model with no performance stuff. That’s 12k more than the BRZ and you likely need to option it up further to around 15k of difference. I don’t see the value for myself.