New BRZ vs Z - Page 22 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Drakezadrift · 07-17-2021, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

A friend and I were talking about the lack of affordable lightweight rwd sports cars, but I realized that as long as the second gen BRZ and ND2 Miata exist, I’m perfectly happy. As sad as it is that there aren’t more competitors in the sub-3000 lbs rwd space, both are amazing cars.

Indeed. At least they will still be around til the end of this decade from the looks of it.

The next gen miata has been confirmed by Mazda though details are specific details are scarce.

https://www.carscoops.com/2021/06/th...-in-the-works/

Rumors are floating around that it will be unveiled in 2023 though it hasn't been confirmed yet.

Lelandjt · 07-19-2021, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

It's complete BS. Companies are going to find that the average American can't afford a $40k car.

I live in a cheap state, with an $1100 mortgage. Our gross income is well north of $10k/month............I don't think I would feel comfortable buying a $40k vehicle.

But I guess there is a reason we see 84-96 month car loans now.

The average car sold in America RIGHT NOW is in the high $30s.

OkieSnuffBox · 07-26-2021, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lelandjt

The average car sold in America RIGHT NOW is in the high $30s.

I'd be more inclined to see what the mean is.

But this is also because consumers have become comfortable with 84 month loans to have a new car. That means for most cars, you still have two more years of payments after the warranty had ended. Or even more payments depending on how much you drive.

Ernest72 · 07-27-2021, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

I'd be more inclined to see what the mean is.

But this is also because consumers have become comfortable with 84 month loans to have a new car. That means for most cars, you still have two more years of payments after the warranty had ended. Or even more payments depending on how much you drive.

Not to mention the average age of a car on the road is about 12. And about 25% are over 16 years. So maybe Americans can afford 30k but only if they keep the car for awhile.

OkieSnuffBox · 07-28-2021, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Not to mention the average age of a car on the road is about 12. And about 25% are over 16 years. So maybe Americans can afford 30k but only if they keep the car for awhile.

The average household income is around $65k gross.

A $30k car is ABSOLUTELY not "affordable" on that salary even with an 84 month loan..........if you are actually saving money, contributing to retirement, take a vacation once in a while, treat yourself to a nice meal, etc.

shiumai · 07-28-2021, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

The average household income is around $65k gross.

A $30k car is ABSOLUTELY not "affordable" on that salary even with an 84 month loan..........if you are actually saving money, contributing to retirement, take a vacation once in a while, treat yourself to a nice meal, etc.

The 'average' household doesn't need to be able to afford a $30k car. Car manufacturers just need enough of those that ARE able to afford them to make the sales. Say $100k annual household income is needed. That's approx 30% of the households in the US - which is approx 130 million households. There are more than enough households that can afford a $30k car.

Sasquachulator · 07-28-2021, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

The average household income is around $65k gross.

A $30k car is ABSOLUTELY not "affordable" on that salary even with an 84 month loan..........if you are actually saving money, contributing to retirement, take a vacation once in a while, treat yourself to a nice meal, etc.

It is if you arent knee deep in uneccessary debt (ie credit card) and have a mortgage that you can actually afford and not a mortgage that you can qualify for. (qualified for a 400k mortgage...buys a 400k house vs qualified for 400k mortage, buys a 350k house)

Ernest72 · 07-28-2021, 10:01 PM

I personally think the car market is due for a correction. The pandemic left people with cash that is drying up, the people who did not want to use public transport already bought cars. This combined with going back to work, people will realize traffic sucks and cars are not cheap. I bought a 17 is300 for my wife in feb 2020 and an 18 RDX as an extra car and for my daughter in feb 21. Both were great deals, I would not buy them now at higher prices, I would wait. There are many others who can wait. Time will tell

CaptainFenderbaum · 07-29-2021, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

I'd be more inclined to see what the mean is.

But this is also because consumers have become comfortable with 84 month loans to have a new car. That means for most cars, you still have two more years of payments after the warranty had ended. Or even more payments depending on how much you drive.

I think you mean median (pun intended)

OkieSnuffBox · 07-29-2021, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainFenderbaum

I think you mean median (pun intended)

You are correct. That's why I got a Journalism degree!

gymratter · 07-30-2021, 06:30 PM

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...dimensions.38/

FrickingReallySlow · 08-06-2021, 12:28 PM

Not sure if its already mentioned but the new Z will be using the VG30DDTT (smaller brother of the GT-R) which already has a long history of reliability making 400HP stock on current Q50/Q60s as well as 450 on just sw tunes. So the engine has that going for it. Even if they detune it for the 35K models your potential is really high without buying any expensive bolt-on HW

TheDonEffect · 08-06-2021, 12:38 PM

From what I understand the Q50 engine is reasonably reliable in stock form, tune and such nets another 50 as mentioned, but going beyond that is not as easy as any of the BMW I6s. I think you need to swap injectors or something to go beyond that, then I believe you then needed some cooling mods. Been a while since I researched it, but my takeaway was the B58 will hand it its lunch, forget about the S5x engines.

And conventional wisdom will say well cheaper to maintain a Nissan than a BMW, but Infiniti products despite them using engines being massively produced and used across all sorts of products, are still relatively on par with European cars when it comes to repairs and such.

But this is based on my minimal to moderate amount of research, and anecdotal.

People also forget that the Z32TT wasn't exactly a cheap car to maintain either. Yes, it didn't go kaboom like Ferraris and such, and they were reasonably reliable, but for example a turbo replacement was an engine out operation.

PulsarBeeerz · 08-06-2021, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrickingReallySlow

Not sure if its already mentioned but the new Z will be using the VG30DDTT (smaller brother of the GT-R) which already has a long history of reliability making 400HP stock on current Q50/Q60s as well as 450 on just sw tunes. So the engine has that going for it. Even if they detune it for the 35K models your potential is really high without buying any expensive bolt-on HW

Haha, yeah the engine has been mention for while as its one of the main selling points.

07-28-2021, 10:01 PM	#302
Ernest72 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Drives: 16 Silver BRZ, 04 Silver WRX wagon Location: Rockland county, NY Posts: 1,412 Thanks: 182 Thanked 768 Times in 439 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I personally think the car market is due for a correction. The pandemic left people with cash that is drying up, the people who did not want to use public transport already bought cars. This combined with going back to work, people will realize traffic sucks and cars are not cheap. I bought a 17 is300 for my wife in feb 2020 and an 18 RDX as an extra car and for my daughter in feb 21. Both were great deals, I would not buy them now at higher prices, I would wait. There are many others who can wait. Time will tell

07-30-2021, 06:30 PM	#305
gymratter Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Drives: BMW Location: TX Posts: 2,395 Thanks: 1,971 Thanked 1,825 Times in 952 Posts Mentioned: 7 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...dimensions.38/

08-06-2021, 12:28 PM	#306
FrickingReallySlow Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Drives: 2015 FR-S Location: San francisco Posts: 357 Thanks: 144 Thanked 154 Times in 101 Posts Mentioned: 8 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Not sure if its already mentioned but the new Z will be using the VG30DDTT (smaller brother of the GT-R) which already has a long history of reliability making 400HP stock on current Q50/Q60s as well as 450 on just sw tunes. So the engine has that going for it. Even if they detune it for the 35K models your potential is really high without buying any expensive bolt-on HW

08-06-2021, 12:38 PM	#307
TheDonEffect Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Drives: A mix Location: Bay Area Posts: 152 Thanks: 53 Thanked 111 Times in 64 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	From what I understand the Q50 engine is reasonably reliable in stock form, tune and such nets another 50 as mentioned, but going beyond that is not as easy as any of the BMW I6s. I think you need to swap injectors or something to go beyond that, then I believe you then needed some cooling mods. Been a while since I researched it, but my takeaway was the B58 will hand it its lunch, forget about the S5x engines. And conventional wisdom will say well cheaper to maintain a Nissan than a BMW, but Infiniti products despite them using engines being massively produced and used across all sorts of products, are still relatively on par with European cars when it comes to repairs and such. But this is based on my minimal to moderate amount of research, and anecdotal. People also forget that the Z32TT wasn't exactly a cheap car to maintain either. Yes, it didn't go kaboom like Ferraris and such, and they were reasonably reliable, but for example a turbo replacement was an engine out operation.

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