Vorshlag LSX kit

[cf6mech]

I have split company with Vorshlag not of my accord but the owners,... so I'm on my own at this point.....dont know if the sway bar they had custom bent was a go or no go as they are not talking to me,...I would like my old sway bar back they still have and was promised to be sent to me months ago. I'm not going to go into reasons for the split but will note that builds and swaps like this are not for the faint at heart.....I'm still very pleased with the quality and craftsmanship at Vorshlag and would highly recommend this kit for anyone doing the swap,.....as far as canbus, I have a guy working on it as we speak and there are others working on it as well. So there will be multiple solutions to choose from soon,....if I have any breaking news as far as my car I will post it here.

[NahumCC]

Wow, to bad cause it was looking like an awesome product. Can't wait to see you get it finished.

[wooly35]

Damn, that's sad to hear. You and vorshlag have been through a lot. Too bad it had to end that way. Anyways, hope your car is finished soon.

[s2d4]

May as well get the motec and be done with it.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by cf6mech

I have split company with Vorshlag not of my accord but the owners,... so I'm on my own at this point.....dont know if the sway bar they had custom bent was a go or no go as they are not talking to me,...I would like my old sway bar back they still have and was promised to be sent to me months ago. I'm not going to go into reasons for the split but will note that builds and swaps like this are not for the faint at heart.....I'm still very pleased with the quality and craftsmanship at Vorshlag and would highly recommend this kit for anyone doing the swap,.....as far as canbus, I have a guy working on it as we speak and there are others working on it as well. So there will be multiple solutions to choose from soon,....if I have any breaking news as far as my car I will post it here.

Sorry to hear about the drama. I hope you get everything working the way you want it soon

[slicktop]

Originally Posted by s2d4

May as well get the motec and be done with it.

Pretty much this. I'm running an Emtron KV8 which we'll find out very very soon in regards to functionality and "plug-n-play" CANbus communication.

I recommend everyone that contacts me to save their time and money and just purchase a MoTeC.

[Spartarus]

Originally Posted by slicktop

Pretty much this. I'm running an Emtron KV8 which we'll find out very very soon in regards to functionality and "plug-n-play" CANbus communication.

I am very interested to know.

Would prefer an Emtron 100 times over an M150.

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by cf6mech

... but will note that builds and swaps like this are not for the faint at heart.....

QFT!

This should be on a banner at the top of this forum.

[slicktop]

Originally Posted by Spartarus

I am very interested to know.

Would prefer an Emtron 100 times over an M150.

Any reason behind this besides price?

[Spartarus]

Originally Posted by slicktop

Any reason behind this besides price?

Price is a big part of it, but I hate what Motec has done with the business model. I'd rather support literally any other company. I hope Motec chokes and dies on the M150. I hope it is their last product.

You can't just "buy" an unconfigured M150 and install it. You need a license and a software package. There are several options for buying, and all of them are terrible.

1. If your build (your car, with your engine) has never been configured before, then you buy a development license. I hope you can write firmware in the Motec "M1 build" IDE, or you are going to be paying somebody to do that. Total cost after everything, if you're paying somebody to program it, well north of $6000.

2. If somebody has already configured a Motec M1 for your build (car and engine specific) then you can buy a preconfigured ECU, but oh! No, it's not that simple. The buyer/licensee/vendor now owns the intellectual property to that M1 build, and can sell it at whatever markup they please. Titan Motorsports, for example, will sell you an M150 "plug and play" for the ft86 for the low, low price of $5400. Before the patch harness... You can not, then, reconfigure that ECU for a different engine. It's an FA20 ECU, like it or not.

3. If you chose option 1, congratulations! you now own that package, and the associated intellectual property. You have the right to onsell it for a profit! What? You're not a vendor? You just wanted to build a car? You have no interest in the business of selling widgets? Oh well, I guess you wasted a whole f*ck-ton of money on nothing. You should really consider getting into the business of marking up and reselling somebody else's little black boxes. Specifically, Motec's little black boxes, because the profitability and viability of the business is tied to a single primary vendor. Sounds like a steaming pile of sh*t, Motec. Sounds like building a network of dependent secondary vendors to handle all the post-market support of your product at a tiny profit margin so you can make all the real money with your hands clean. The great thing about being a middle-man is you get f*cked from both ends!

Tuning on an M150 is vastly overcomplicated for simple port injected engines, with a wide range of needless features.

Their whole bullsh*t excuse for the business model is it's just too complicated to make an off-the-shelf ECU for today's wide range of direct injection and CANBUS systems. F*ck that, no it isnt. At the very least, not for the everyday pedestrian automobile. They spend most of their video time referencing exotic supercars to make the argument. Great, a $6000 ECU is nothing to the owner of a LaFerrari. If that's the clientele they are chasing, then great, let them do it, but I'll quit tuning cars before I sign on to that business model for something as cheap and pedestrian as a GT86.

That "incredibly complicated" CAN BUS, in our car, runs 3 systems. With a simple message stream on a 2-wire masterless network. Oh, sooooo complicated. The controller-area network is the simplest network in computer networking, by a huge margin, bar none.

If a $600 MegaSquirt can be configured to run OEM CAN systems (and it has, on a Porsche, no less) then nobody has any business supporting Motec.

[slicktop]

Originally Posted by Spartarus

Price is a big part of it, but I hate what Motec has done with the business model. I'd rather support literally any other company. I hope Motec chokes and dies on the M150. I hope it is their last product.

You can't just "buy" an unconfigured M150 and install it. You need a license and a software package. There are several options for buying, and all of them are terrible.

1. If your build (your car, with your engine) has never been configured before, then you buy a development license. I hope you can write firmware in the Motec "M1 build" IDE, or you are going to be paying somebody to do that. Total cost after everything, if you're paying somebody to program it, well north of $6000.

2. If somebody has already configured a Motec M1 for your build (car and engine specific) then you can buy a preconfigured ECU, but oh! No, it's not that simple. The buyer/licensee/vendor now owns the intellectual property to that M1 build, and can sell it at whatever markup they please. Titan Motorsports, for example, will sell you an M150 "plug and play" for the ft86 for the low, low price of $5400. Before the patch harness... You can not, then, reconfigure that ECU for a different engine. It's an FA20 ECU, like it or not.

3. If you chose option 1, congratulations! you now own that package, and the associated intellectual property. You have the right to onsell it for a profit! What? You're not a vendor? You just wanted to build a car? You have no interest in the business of selling widgets? Oh well, I guess you wasted a whole f*ck-ton of money on nothing. You should really consider getting into the business of marking up and reselling somebody else's little black boxes. Specifically, Motec's little black boxes, because the profitability and viability of the business is tied to a single primary vendor. Sounds like a steaming pile of sh*t, Motec. Sounds like building a network of dependent secondary vendors to handle all the post-market support of your product at a tiny profit margin so you can make all the real money with your hands clean. The great thing about being a middle-man is you get f*cked from both ends!

Tuning on an M150 is vastly overcomplicated for simple port injected engines, with a wide range of needless features.

Their whole bullsh*t excuse for the business model is it's just too complicated to make an off-the-shelf ECU for today's wide range of direct injection and CANBUS systems. F*ck that, no it isnt. At the very least, not for the everyday pedestrian automobile. They spend most of their video time referencing exotic supercars to make the argument. Great, a $6000 ECU is nothing to the owner of a LaFerrari. If that's the clientele they are chasing, then great, let them do it, but I'll quit tuning cars before I sign on to that business model for something as cheap and pedestrian as a GT86.

That "incredibly complicated" CAN BUS, in our car, runs 3 systems. With a simple message stream on a 2-wire masterless network. Oh, sooooo complicated. The controller-area network is the simplest network in computer networking, by a huge margin, bar none.

If a $600 MegaSquirt can be configured to run OEM CAN systems (and it has, on a Porsche, no less) then nobody has any business supporting Motec.

Very well explained. I would have been going through route #1 with that same knowledge of spending around $6-7k+install. That (and @Ross recommendation) was the main reason that turned me towards Emtron. Along with the opportunity of opening new doors to the community in regards to EMS options. I hope to have more information on the Emtron KV8 very soon.

[boomslang]

Another vote for the Emtron KV8.

[COO86L]

Subscribing for ECU information. And LS goodness obviously

[npavlo]

Hi.
Nick here from Pavlotech. I use the Emtron product almost exclusively now, and am helping them support the rollout of the product in the USA.

Currently @slicktop just got his 2JZ swapped GT86 running with some integrated features. The CAN configuration is "selectable" in the software, and allows you to point runtimes (pids) to make most of the factory integrated functions work. Right now we are working out a list of things that we need to address, but for the most part the majority of things is working, even the power steering.

The Emtron ECU allows any universal application to be used with the CAN configuration, so running a GM V8 is not a problem.

Other than providing some CAN integration, the Emtron ECU is also a premium system offering a slew of basically any motorsport feature you can think of. It seems that most people are concentrating on the integration options, but besides that, the ECU also has cal slot control, flex fuel, turbo speed functions, closed loop fueling, closed loop motorsport traction control, launch control, gear box control (closed loop sequential too), anti-lag, individual knock, and more. In the end, it is important to keep in mind that these motorsport features and functions take priority regarding ECU systems like this, and the integration is more of a convenience. Most of the time, it is only important for these to pick up some data on wheel speeds, and a couple other things to make some major functions work.

For example, factory traction control makes cars slower when it is regulating, where the built in closed loop motorsport traction control of the Emtron makes cars FASTER. It is a tall order to make a completely different engine (brand) work seamlessly. Not saying it can't be done (or hasn't), just some food for thought on what to expect from motorsport ECU systems!