EVO: GT86 TRD vs Miata MX-5 BBR Turbo

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by Meehow86

So you think adding a body kit to one car and a turbo to another make them comparable... Thank you for not wanting to add more nonsense here.


btw, if you ever learn how to use the internet correctly you would know that its not hard to look up MX-5's on the Mazda website, pick the one which lines up the closest to the GT86/FR-S/BRZ OR throw turbos on both and do a fair comparison. But that's just too hard for you to understand huh?

You stupid, freakin' tard! Is this your idea of moving in for the kill?

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

They just mentioned that the car was similarly priced and that was the comparison.

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

The comparison was between two rear wheel drive sports cars that had the same amount of money (or approximately) put into them.

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

Sounds like TRD needs to actually step up it's game and focus more on what the name is, "Toyota RACING Development" and get away from their stupid bulky body kits. Hopefully videos like this will wake them up. I'd personally rather have a 100% stock looking car that performs like a race car, then a bulky body kit that makes it look like a race car.

And from the video:

Both cars are very similar in concept and very similar on price, but I suspect there will be quite a difference in their relative performance.

It's the TRD. Which has pretty much everything Toyota Racing Development is doing for this car at the moment. Frustratingly, there aren't that many performance enhancing mods

There is something called "reading comprehension" (and I guess listening comprehension) that you need to work on. Just because something has equal amounts of money dumped into it (so yes, to answer your question adding a TRD body kit to the GT86 and a turbo to the MX5 makes them comparable in price as the video said), does not mean that it's equal performance-wise, nor did I ever claim that it was…..I said, and the video mentioned that these two cars has similar amounts of money put in them. THAT was the comparison, fair or not. The comparison was on COST only. I even went so far as to say that TRD needed to step up it's game and actually put performance parts on the car rather than cosmetic mods.

Get off your high horse and stop trying to be an internet bad ass! This forum doesn't need a retarded twat like yourself.

[NickFRS]

USD base FRS 25,500 + Innovate supercharger (3,200), Tune (600ish), Springs on OEM struts (250ish), Sway Bars (300ish), Some decent wheels w/245's and an alignment (2k ish). Prob be cheaper then that BBR MX5 and stomp its brains out.

Hell where do I contact these guys. I'll give them my car to take around the track vs that BBR and watch it walk.

25,500 + 3,200 + 600 + 250 + 300 + 2,000 = 31,850........ Am I right??? This was a stupid comparison.

though after you add labor time for charger + installs prob be closer to 33,000 - 34,000

My argument. OEM Vs AM. Obv OEM will be more expensive. Esp if we are talking TRD who wants 900 bucks for the plastic piece to put on our rear window.


BBR pricing

http://www.carscoops.com/2013/11/bbr...-268hp-in.html

http://releases.jalopnik.com/legenda...0-w-1471852286 <---- thing is heavily modified.

(On the outside, the car looks just like the standard 2.0-liter Sport Tech Roadster Coupe it’s based on, except discreet “BBR Turbo” badging and BBR branded exhaust tailpipe trims. BBR will only build 100 units, each priced at £29,995 (US$48,500 / €35,800) on the road.)

google: 29995 British Pound Sterling equals 49467.75 US Dollar

~~~~If we are talking 50k usd who wants to put the crawford turbo BRZ against the bbr? I mean he tried to sell it for $45k with a built engine and 400WHP+ and everyone called him crazy.

~~~~~~~~~~ From Mazda USA. Here is the top OEM Mazda MX-5. Compare it to that.

view interior | view exterior
My 2014 MX-5 Grand Touring - Power Retractable Hard Top MSRP $ 29,450
Destination Fee $ 795
167-hp 2.0L DOHC 16-valve inline 4-cylinder Standard
Rear Wheel Drive Standard
6-Speed Manual Standard
Options $ 0
Colors
Exterior: LIQUID SILVER
Interior: BLACK LEATHER
Total MSRP: $ 30,245 * calculate financing***

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by NickFRS

USD base FRS 25,500 + Innovate supercharger (3,200), Tune (600ish), Springs on OEM struts (250ish), Sway Bars (300ish), Some decent wheels w/245's and an alignment (2k ish). Prob be cheaper then that BBR MX5 and stomp its brains out.

Hell where do I contact these guys. I'll give them my car to take around the track vs that BBR and watch it walk.

25,500 + 3,200 + 600 + 250 + 300 + 2,000 = 31,850........ Am I right??? This was a stupid comparison.

though after you add labor time for charger + installs prob be closer to 33,000 - 34,000

My argument. OEM Vs AM. Obv OEM will be more expensive. Esp if we are talking TRD who wants 900 bucks for the plastic piece to put on our rear window.


BBR pricing

http://www.carscoops.com/2013/11/bbr...-268hp-in.html

http://releases.jalopnik.com/legenda...0-w-1471852286 <---- thing is heavily modified.

(On the outside, the car looks just like the standard 2.0-liter Sport Tech Roadster Coupe it’s based on, except discreet “BBR Turbo” badging and BBR branded exhaust tailpipe trims. BBR will only build 100 units, each priced at £29,995 (US$48,500 / €35,800) on the road.)

~~~~If we are talking 50k usd who wants to put the crawford turbo BRZ against the bbr? I mean he tried to sell it for $45k with a built engine and 400WHP+ and everyone called him crazy.

~~~~~~~~~~ From Mazda USA. Here is the top OEM Mazda MX-5. Compare it to that.

view interior | view exterior
My 2014 MX-5 Grand Touring - Power Retractable Hard Top MSRP $ 29,450
Destination Fee $ 795
167-hp 2.0L DOHC 16-valve inline 4-cylinder Standard
Rear Wheel Drive Standard
6-Speed Manual Standard
Options $ 0
Colors
Exterior: LIQUID SILVER
Interior: BLACK LEATHER
Total MSRP: $ 30,245 * calculate financing***

its equally unfair to use msrp and intercontinental pricing (especially as much as the gt86 they used cost) as it is to compare these two cars or to use the grand touring miata. stock for stock and mod for mod the miata is cheaper. the bbr miata isnt an example of a fast or economical choice. i suspect these cars were compared because they had access to these two cars.

i think people are expecting too much from a comparison. its just a comparison of two cars. thats it. if you think there are more appropriate comparisons, go ahead and compare them.

[NickFRS]

Originally Posted by fatoni

its equally unfair to use msrp and intercontinental pricing (especially as much as the gt86 they used cost) as it is to compare these two cars or to use the grand touring miata. stock for stock and mod for mod the miata is cheaper. the bbr miata isnt an example of a fast or economical choice. i suspect these cars were compared because they had access to these two cars.

i think people are expecting too much from a comparison. its just a comparison of two cars. thats it. if you think there are more appropriate comparisons, go ahead and compare them.

Either way a base GT86 (basicly our limited BRZ) is £24,995. Auto = £26,495

24995 British Pound Sterling equals
41214.26 US Dollar

Stock MX-5 Mazda MX-5 Sport Tech Nav (like our usd 30k model) is £23,295. Auto = £23,695
23295 British Pound Sterling equals
38418.11 US Dollar

OEM vs OEM

(don't get me wrong i see your point TRD = £31,495 - BBR = £29,995)

This would be AM vs AM. Put this on a brit GT86 w/tires n take em around the track.
AVO kit in brit. = Inc VAT £3,958.80 + gt86 = 28953.change
http://www.fensport.co.uk/Parts/Mode...ategory_1/4463

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by fatoni

while slightly over stating my point, its worth noting that it is an extremely small track. thats like a kart track time. i dont know why you think the miata has more grip in the comparison. all they talk about is how the rear end likes to step out. its also been shown here that the frs can take a lot of tire. more than they have in the study im sure. just take a look at the 86 cup where the fastest street class time at sow ccw was 1:28 while in the super modified calss it was a 1:26. while i cant difinitively say that the 1:26 didnt have forced induction, i can say that the point system would mean that having fi would likely make it slower than if you didnt at a street class level. there are also sub 2 minut n/a cars at buttonwillow. i dont think we have seen a sub 1:55 on a streetable car without more than 270hp and those lap times are almost double.

my only point is that people treat power in a different way than they do other mods which is confusing. the relationship between power and speed isnt linear. that kind of assumption makes as much sense as drawing a direct relationship between treadwear and cornering forces. it just doesnt work that way.

I wasn't talking about Miata's in a generic sense, but that specific Miata having more grip than that GT86 TRD edition from the video. That particular Miata had an aftermarket suspension, brakes and likely better tires than PS3s.

I think you'll agree that I certainly did not make a linear relationship between power and speed, but I get who you were referring to. But you kind of went the other direction saying the Miata's power advantage was largely irrelevant because it's a small track. I'm saying despite being a small track, it had 15 seconds where the Miata could use it's substantial power advantage. That is no small matter. Count 15 seconds in your head and think about how much having that much more power and torque would help being flat out for that long especially busting out of a turn.

I was mistaken in talking about a 70hp advantage when the Miata actually had a >100hp boost. So doing the equivalent power addition to the 86 would put it above 300hp.

Personally I'm not at all concerned about comparing whatever the Miata does to the 86 at SoW or BW. The Miata has had more than a decade of aftermarket support and user feedback to dial it in and the 86 has already shown it can go faster when the right effort is applied. I'm not at all worried about what lap times will look like for the 86 once the same level of support and experience comes to the community. The 86 platform is still very raw and a large number of users are still what I'd consider casual. Besides, the two cars fulfill two different needs and classes anyway.

[JS + BRZ]

Jesus, some of you guys take this shit way too seriously.

[sato]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Obviously a Miata built by an aftermarket performance shop is going to be cheaper and faster than a GT86 fitted only with TRD pieces.

Especially when fitted with TRD pieces!

[bunny86]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i think people are expecting too much from a comparison. its just a comparison of two cars. thats it. if you think there are more appropriate comparisons, go ahead and compare them.

Expecting too much? They were comparing two cars of similar price and judging their findings entirely on how quick they could get around a track. Apart from the Litchfield BRZ, there is also the Fensport GT86 which would have made a far better and fairer comparison. People are rightly criticising the video because it was a totally biased piece against the FRS/GT86/BRZ.

[Meehow86]

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

You stupid, freakin' tard! Is this your idea of moving in for the kill?







And from the video:





There is something called "reading comprehension" (and I guess listening comprehension) that you need to work on. Just because something has equal amounts of money dumped into it (so yes, to answer your question adding a TRD body kit to the GT86 and a turbo to the MX5 makes them comparable in price as the video said), does not mean that it's equal performance-wise, nor did I ever claim that it was…..I said, and the video mentioned that these two cars has similar amounts of money put in them. THAT was the comparison, fair or not. The comparison was on COST only. I even went so far as to say that TRD needed to step up it's game and actually put performance parts on the car rather than cosmetic mods.

Get off your high horse and stop trying to be an internet bad ass! This forum doesn't need a retarded twat like yourself.

All I picture when I read your posts are and "TRD SUCKZ YO!, I don't know how fair comparisons work because I'm such a douche!!" Your parents must be SOOOO proud of the dipshit they raised.

None of your points are valid and you just circle around like an idiot to the same nonsense you've been spouting from the beginning. Seriously, body kits=/=turbo kits

As a former MX-5 owner and current BRZ owner I'd just like to say, you should probably trade your car in. You're an embarrassment to the community.

[thill]

[Trmx2]

What a terrible comparsion this was. An aftermarket tuned car with +70 hp, custom springs because "bbr didn't like the aftermarket choices" and a turbo....gee which one would be faster against a basically stock gt86? Please...this was pointless. Loved watching the GT86 slide around turns though

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by Meehow86

All I picture when I read your posts are and "TRD SUCKZ YO!, I don't know how fair comparisons work because I'm such a douche!!" Your parents must be SOOOO proud of the dipshit they raised.

None of your points are valid and you just circle around like an idiot to the same nonsense you've been spouting from the beginning. Seriously, body kits=/=turbo kits

As a former MX-5 owner and current BRZ owner I'd just like to say, you should probably trade your car in. You're an embarrassment to the community.

Wow, just wow. You CONTINUE to miss the original point I was making, which once again, comes down to reading comprehension. Cars priced the same way will not always comparable performance-wise, but they are still put in to the same class. And honestly now I'm just getting bored. You ever hear the saying, "Life isn't fair?" I've seen plenty of NA low horsepower cars murder high horse powered cars around the track. You think they were crying, "it's not fair!"

In this case, TRD DOES SUCK far as performance is concerned, now doesn't it? Throwing a body kit and bigger wheels on a car does not a race car make. In fact it's counterproductive IMHO. There are more videos and data showing this. This videos is showing how the SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY (once again, comparing similar priced cars) dedicated to different mods have an effect on performance.

I should sell my car because you don't like what I'm saying!? LOL That has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. SHUT UP! Maybe it's time you look through some of my posts and see just what an embarrassment I actually am…..or maybe I'm a helper? There are a lot of things I've done for this community. I get PM's asking how I did something to my car. I'm a VERY active member on the SoCal 86 Club Facebook page. In fact, I woke up to a "Mention" thanking me for pictures and info on how to paint the headlight housings and encouraging him to do the same. I didn't come up with the idea but I've helped a dozen or so people do it. I've even helped a guy when he purchased his car.

This is the last response you will get from me because, as I mentioned from the beginning, it's a dumb argument. My opinion doesn't have to be the same as yours, and I've always been one to run the car that I brought to the race. I don't make excuses as to why I lost, I just lost. Next time you come back better. Good news about this video is that the Mazda boys are gonna be shocked when they get beaten by a stock looking GT86 at the track. I don't personally think it would take FI to keep up with the MX5 in the video.

By the way, I'll be in Chicago for business this summer if you want to meet up and have a beer. We can continue this conversation then, and meet face to face. Battle out our views on internet videos. PM me if you want.

[oldpueblo]

Now let's find a truck for the same price and compare it!

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by Trmx2

What a terrible comparsion this was. An aftermarket tuned car with +70 hp

It's actually > +100hp. Miata is 167hp stock, not 200hp.