Motor Trend: 2016 Miata vs 2015 BRZ

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Why by a base miata when you can have a twin at the same price and have a better car.

lmao why buy a twin when you can have a Mustang at the same price and have a "better" car.

You really didn't want to have this discussion did you?

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

There is still a market for the base miata for those enthusiasts who like to modify. And drive at 10/10 and are looking for that extra 10th or 100th by having a mechnical diff, or penske suspension, larger/wider wheels.

For the guys are in the market for a weekend toy and don't want to modify there is the miata in base or club trim.

And guys from group hardcore don't give a flying fuck where either trim lands in a magazine comparo.

Guys from group stock-track are unlikely to consider the open-diff, comparison shown in magazine is valid as that is meaningful to them.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

lmao why buy a twin when you can have a Mustang at the same price and have a "better" car.

You really didn't want to have this discussion did you?
Mustang and a Twin is not exactly the same demographic. Or else we'd all be driving one. Moot Point


And guys from group hardcore don't give a flying fuck where either trim lands in a magazine comparo.

Never said that they did. Group hardcore would cross shop the 2 cars though.

Guys from group stock-track are unlikely to consider the open-diff, comparison shown in magazine is valid as that is meaningful to them.

Missed my point. You are ABSOLUTELY correct that guys who want to track a stock car would not consider the open diff miata. When they can have the twin at the same price. Not require a roll-cage... etc etc.

For the weekend warrior on a budget, the twin is obviously the better choice than the miata.

[brianhj]

Originally Posted by BRZZZZZZZZZZ

Miatas are in with the younger crowd, just not the NC and ND...

Are you over 50 years or a 16 year old girl? Buy a miata

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Missed my point. You are ABSOLUTELY correct that guys who want to track a stock car would not consider the open diff miata. When they can have the twin at the same price. Not require a roll-cage... etc etc.

For the weekend warrior on a budget, the twin is obviously the better choice than the miata.

I'm not convinced of that, the performance increase for dollar paid is there (not great value, but there), the Miata is not a loosing proposition, the lightness, convertible, Mazda's reputation, a slightly more conventional powertrain (D4-S Boxer still unproven imo, Skyactiv has millions of cumulative miles already, problems will appear in the '11/12/13 models before the ND), strong aftermarket, the Miata has many things going for it even at it's higher price point. If the difference between $25k and $30k is untenable the buyer should rethink their budget, go used or save a bit more to get the exact car they want imo. As stated in the MotorTrend article, the reviews shouldn't sway you significantly, either a 2+2 coupe lights the fire, or the 2 seater convertible does. If all you want is the best lap time for $25k/$30k neither car is the answer.

I don't know about you but I've probably seen well over a hundred posts around here and various other sites about how people won't consider the 86 because it's fixed roof. The 86 can't even compete in that regard.



Edit:

Mustang and a Twin is not exactly the same demographic. Or else we'd all be driving one. Moot Point

2+2 Sporty coupe in the same price bracket. We know they're different, the average buyer won't, it's a matter of perspective. The Mustang has been proven to outperform the 86 for the same dollar, I thought we were arguing about performance metrics vs. price paid and available trim levels? Worth noting, the GTI wins the performance comparison in the article, they just dumped it because it wasn't 'fun'. I bet that pisses a lot of people off.

[n2oinferno]

Alright, let's make this a fair apples to apples comparison.

We're gonna take a base FRS or BRZ and a base MX-5. Then we're going to put them at the starting line of a track.

Next we're gonna bust out a sawzall and cut the roof off of the FRS/BRZ, tear out the back seat, and then let them have their laps.


Personally I'm hopeful for what Fiat has planned. They've confirmed their variant is going to be a Fiat Spyder 124. A MX-5 with the 1.4 Turbo MultiAir engine that I have in my Abarth would be outstanding.

[tahdizzle]

2+2 and 4 seats are not the same.

Driving Feel and "fun" is why the GTI lost and why the mustang would lose.
I'm suprised that you don't know that the driving feel; the non-quantifiable characteristics of the twins is why we are not driving mustangs.

[tennisfreak]

Everyone is going to argue their favorite cars position and try to convince everyone else why their choice is the correct one.

As it stand though going off the numbers we have

The new Miata is the hands down winner vs. the Twins when it comes to performance.
No point in arguing aftermarket since there is not one for the Miata yet, but there will be one.

If you can get by with two seats the Miata is the better pick.

If not then the twins are the pick to go with.

[ajaxthebetter]

I sat in my little college apartment watching some sporting event when in through the door burst my roommate.

"Wanna go get some food?" he asked. "My dad let me borrow his car."

"Definitely," came my reply.

His father owned a Maserati Gran Turismo. I dressed in somewhat fashionable attire, so as not to look put of place in the fantastic Turismo, and thus exited my dreary little apartment.

There to greet me, a gloom swept day accompanied by a modest drizzle. Not uncommon in Washington. But the gloom did not matter. The drizzle but an afterthought, for there in my mind I knew there awaited around the corner a Gran Turismo.

We rounded the corner and came upon the street. A line of utilitarian vehicles stretched as far as I could see. Civics. A mini Van.

"Where's the Turismo?" I asked.
"Oh, my dad sold it. Got that Miata instead. See it over there." He motioned between the mini van and my civic.
"What the hell happened?" I asked. "Why the miata?"
"I don't know. My dad calls it the Mazderati."
"Still not cool," I said. "Still not cool."

Miata is responsible for the greatest let down of my automotive life. And now moreso perhaos since it outruns my BRZ.

Ha.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

Everyone is going to argue their favorite cars position and try to convince everyone else why their choice is the correct one.

As it stand though going off the numbers we have

The new Miata is the hands down winner vs. the Twins when it comes to performance.

ppffffhhh, says you...I'm sorry it's not, I'll put my twin with less than a $1000 in mods up against a stock miata all day long...Hell, even on just AM wheels and tires it's the other way around...
No point in arguing aftermarket since there is not one for the Miata yet, but there will be one.
again says you....
If you can get by with two seats the Miata is the better pick.

and with a soft top...

If not then the twins are the pick to go with.

Yeah what did the twine say to the rope? frayed knot....

Jaden

[thill]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I like the new ND but if you guys have noticed 2 of 3 editors(Carlos Lago being one) from MT said that they still prefer the BRZ regardless of acceleration differences. That alone should tell you something.

This still does not compute to me and Motor Trend has some explaining to do:

So we arrive at an interesting result, wherein both Lago and Sandoval would buy the BRZ (this vintage Brit-roadster owner votes Miata) while we unanimously agree the Mazda is the better car and hence deserves the official win.

It's just really poorly written. The Mazda is the better car yet two of the three editors would buy the BRZ over the Miata? Why? Because it is more practical? Because they prefer the driving dynamics more?

Very odd. It almost feels like they were told to pick the Mazda as the winner no matter what.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

2+2 and 4 seats are not the same.

Driving Feel and "fun" is why the GTI lost and why the mustang would lose.
I'm suprised that you don't know that the driving feel; the non-quantifiable characteristics of the twins is why we are not driving mustangs.

Wait, according to the article the non-quantifiable AND the quantifiable things in the Miata are victorious over the BRZ.

With our "work" concluded, we head for the mountains for some real-world play. Five-feet-of-fun Sandoval finds the BRZ's cockpit an ideal fit that compounds the confidence inspired by the chassis' responsive steering and flat cornering. She regards it as "a patient older brother taking his kid sister to a PG movie when he'd prefer an R-rated one with some drifting." Lago concurs: "Seems like you sit lower in the BRZ, and I like the feeling of sitting down in the car rather than on top of it." Sandoval likens the Mazda's poise and balance to that of a ballerina, its minimal weight forever "over its center," able to pirouette effortlessly. While admitting she'd personally buy the better fitting BRZ, she notes that "it's like a distressed leather jacket whereas the more refined Miata is a fine merino wool sport coat." Lago declares, "The Miata falls on the big-boy toy scale between the Alfa 4C and a Jet Ski," adding that it perpetually "gives me a goofy grin."

I feel like we've lost the point, I brought up the Mustang and GTI because of the argument that the Mazda's price point and trim level makes it a 'biased comparison' giving it an unfair quantifiable advantage. I don't understand why your angle keeps changing in relation to mine, all of page 6 was talk of bang for your buck and performance characteristics and now we're talking about feel?

I do enjoy reading your thoughts, I'm just confused as to what they are now. I like my 86, I have no near term plans to pick up the ND even though it appears to be the better performance car at a competitive price to the Toyobaru.

And to think, with both cars starting at $26k, we've already seen that the Mazda with $3k on some performance bits and $3k on some puff pulls a full second+ on the 86 without true performance tires or suspension. We know the BRZ picks up roughly the same from bolting on 200 treadwear performance tires, so it'd be fair to say the Mazda will pick up even more time if the $3k-$6k is spent on aftermarket for both cars from base. It's becoming very clear to me what the best bang for your buck drivers car is. We will see if anyone can come up with a reasonable LSD solution, I haven't looked into that too much but that would likely make the base trim a slam dunk for true hotlapping comparison on a budget.

Edit: Again though, this is all a moot point, very few people can honestly deep down say that the end result of owning a 2 seater impractical 'vert will be as pleasing as a 2+2 coupe with decent trunk space, no matter which side they fall on. I personally can't take the impracticality of the Miata which is why I didn't buy an NC/NA.

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Yeah what did the twine say to the rope? frayed knot....

ppffffhhh, says you...I'm sorry it's not, I'll put my twin with less than a $1000 in mods up against a stock miata all day long...Hell, even on just AM wheels and tires it's the other way around..

Jaden

My post specifically mentioned to considering aftermarket and the first thing you type is modding your twin would make it better?

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by thill

This still does not compute to me and Motor Trend has some explaining to do:




It's just really poorly written. The Mazda is the better car yet two of the three editors would buy the BRZ over the Miata? Why? Because it is more practical? Because they prefer the driving dynamics more?

Very odd. It almost feels like they were told to pick the Mazda as the winner no matter what.

The only guy from MT that I can believe in is Carlos Lago because he is big on lightweight,RWD,balance sports cars. The other guys on MT is iffy at best!

[chaoskaze]

It's ok guys chill, it's not like we don't know FRS/86/BRZ is the middle of everything car. You buy them & upgrade them like monthly or even weekly cuz there is so many things to pick on....unlike S2k or Miata.