Coilover decision fatigue - would love a recommendation

[jkamelo]

Coilover shopping is hard. I’m down to these five:

- CSG Flex A
- Racecomp SS1
- Fortune Auto 500
- Flex A (dat price)
- Flex Z (dat price)

I’d love to hear some opinions on which ones I should go with based on my situation. First-hand accounts, anecdotal evidence, and straight-up sales pitches are all welcomed.

. . .

Use case:
- Bone stock 2016 FRS
- Primarily a suburban daily driver.
- Spirited mountain cruise once a month.
- Track day 2-3x a year.

Current wheel/tire setup:
- Stock TRD 17x7.5.
- Stock Bridgestone Turanza EL400 215/45 all-seasons.

Upcoming wheel/tire setup:
- Enkei TSR-X 18x8.5 all around. (20.4 lbs)
- Michelin Pilot Sport All-Season 4 225/40.

Goals:
- Lower the car an inch or so to minimize wheel gap - nothing crazy.
- Preserve or improve upon stock handling characteristics.
- Needs to pass the girlfriend test - I don’t want anything that increases noise & harshness significantly above stock levels (this is dependent on damping, of course).

Considerations:
- I’ve ruled out lowering springs and shock/spring combos. I like the adjustability/all-in-one aspect of coilovers.
- I live in Virginia, and I recognize the importance of living close to the manufacturer for rebuilds. RCE is in Maryland and Fortune Auto is in my state.
- What would I /really/ be missing by going the cheaper route? I know what features I’d be missing on paper, but as far as my actual driving experience is concerned, would a daily-driving noob like me notice the difference between the Flex Z and the CSG Flex A?

[ZDan]

I think you're doing yourself a disservice not considering Bilstein B6 (or B8). WAY happier with the overall high- and low-speed rebound and compression damping with these on my BRZ (with Swift Spec-R springs) vs. the Tein SS (overly harsh, unliveable) or Ohlins R&T (quite good but not perfect) I had on my FD, which were lacking in one or more areas however they were adjusted.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by jkamelo

Goals:
- Lower the car an inch or so to minimize wheel gap - nothing crazy.
- Preserve or improve upon stock handling characteristics.
- Needs to pass the girlfriend test - I don’t want anything that increases noise & harshness significantly above stock levels (this is dependent on damping, of course).

RCE SS1 will definitely do all that! I've been back on stock suspension for most of 2020 and my girlfriend (very much not a car person) misses the SS1s.

It would be great to offer you a ride along in an SS1 equipped car but we just can't do that right now. Someday we'll have a big suspension ride along meet up with as many set ups as possible.

- Andrew

[jkamelo]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I think you're doing yourself a disservice not considering Bilstein B6 (or B8). WAY happier with the overall high- and low-speed rebound and compression damping with these on my BRZ (with Swift Spec-R springs) vs. the Tein SS (overly harsh, unliveable) or Ohlins R&T (quite good but not perfect) I had on my FD, which were lacking in one or more areas however they were adjusted.

Thanks - I’ll look into it, though I’m still drawn toward a coilover because the spring is perfectly matched to the damper.

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

RCE SS1 will definitely do all that! I've been back on stock suspension for most of 2020 and my girlfriend (very much not a car person) misses the SS1s.

It would be great to offer you a ride along in an SS1 equipped car but we just can't do that right now. Someday we'll have a big suspension ride along meet up with as many set ups as possible.

- Andrew

Thanks Andrew! The girlfriend endorsement is an important one.

In your opinion, what makes the SS1 different from the CSG FLA? (Not better or worse - just different. I know both are great.)

[EndlessAzure]

For coils in the under $1500 range, the likelyhood that you will rebuild them is pretty low. Unless you have a lot of seat time or an innate feel for performance driving, it's unlikely that you'll feel the performance degredation. The cost range works out where where it usually makes more sense just to upgrade by the time you actually need to rebuild them.

I only have experience with Standard Tein Flex A. Over 60k street miles and ~15 track events. I like them for an entry level coilover

Pros:

• They ride quite nicely and close to stock at the recommended damping setting
• Great for dual duty street and track
• Nice features (camber plates, hydraulic bump stop)
• Seem pretty durable (I've smacked them really hard on track and on street, and they are still trucking along)

Cons

• The factory Flex A damping range is a little too soft. It has 16 clicks (with the street recommendation being 8/16, with 16 being softest). All the clicks softer than the recommendation are too soft in my opinion even for street use (almost half of the settings!). On the track, I feel only settings between 4 and 1 are stiff enough to be useful (~25% of available settings).
• Spherical front mounts tend to clunk, get worse over time due to normal wear
• Front shock travel is a short due to height independent tube design. Can frequently bottom out if navigating speed bumps too quickly

The CSG Flex A are the same except they are sent through the standard Tein factory rebuild process to specify a different damping profile, which increases the usable stiffness range and adjustment fineness. If you have extra cash and see yourself on the track often, this might be a good route for more damping setting control.

From what I have seen roughly on the Flex Z, they seem to ride a tad harsher than the Flex A but this is purely from a brief scan of discussions/anecdotes.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by jkamelo

Thanks Andrew! The girlfriend endorsement is an important one.

In your opinion, what makes the SS1 different from the CSG FLA? (Not better or worse - just different. I know both are great.)

I love the travel and valving adjustment on our SS1s. The camber plates on the SS1s are also IMO some of the best available for this platform at any price, especially on the street. Long lasting, quiet, and a design that adds extra bump travel.

I'm intrigued by the hydraulic bumpstop on the FLA.

With either you'll get plenty of support and knowledge from actual BRZ specialists.

- Andrew

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by jkamelo

- Lower the car an inch or so to minimize wheel gap - nothing crazy.
- Preserve or improve upon stock handling characteristics.
- Needs to pass the girlfriend test - I don’t want anything that increases noise & harshness significantly above stock levels (this is dependent on damping, of course).

The CSG Flex A rides better than stock, empirically and independently proven, while utilizing nearly double the factory spring rates. I think it matches exactly what you're looking for.

Compliance = comfort, and compliance = grip.

Check out reviews here: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126107

The same damper in action at the track here:

[jkamelo]

Originally Posted by EndlessAzure

For coils in the under $1500 range, the likelyhood that you will rebuild them is pretty low. Unless you have a lot of seat time or an innate feel for performance driving, it's unlikely that you'll feel the performance degredation. The cost range works out where where it usually makes more sense just to upgrade by the time you actually need to rebuild them.

I only have experience with Standard Tein Flex A. Over 60k street miles and ~15 track events. I like them for an entry level coilover

Pros:

• They ride quite nicely and close to stock at the recommended damping setting
• Great for dual duty street and track
• Nice features (camber plates, hydraulic bump stop)
• Seem pretty durable (I've smacked them really hard on track and on street, and they are still trucking along)

Cons

• The factory Flex A damping range is a little too soft. It has 16 clicks (with the street recommendation being 8/16, with 16 being softest). All the clicks softer than the recommendation are too soft in my opinion even for street use (almost half of the settings!). On the track, I feel only settings between 4 and 1 are stiff enough to be useful (~25% of available settings).
• Spherical front mounts tend to clunk, get worse over time due to normal wear
• Front shock travel is a short due to height independent tube design. Can frequently bottom out if navigating speed bumps too quickly

The CSG Flex A are the same except they are sent through the standard Tein factory rebuild process to specify a different damping profile, which increases the usable stiffness range and adjustment fineness. If you have extra cash and see yourself on the track often, this might be a good route for more damping setting control.

From what I have seen roughly on the Flex Z, they seem to ride a tad harsher than the Flex A but this is purely from a brief scan of discussions/anecdotes.

Fantastic advice, thanks. I think for the reasons you listed above, I’m leaning more toward the CSGs or RCEs now. I don’t want useless damper clicks

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

I love the travel and valving adjustment on our SS1s. The camber plates on the SS1s are also IMO some of the best available for this platform at any price, especially on the street. Long lasting, quiet, and a design that adds extra bump travel.

I'm intrigued by the hydraulic bumpstop on the FLA.

With either you'll get plenty of support and knowledge from actual BRZ specialists.

- Andrew

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The CSG Flex A rides better than stock, empirically and independently proven, while utilizing nearly double the factory spring rates. I think it matches exactly what you're looking for.

Compliance = comfort, and compliance = grip.

Check out reviews here: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126107

The same damper in action at the track here:

video

CSG, that track looks fun as hell.

One last question for both RCE and CSG - what are your rebuild costs like? I don’t see it on your websites. Azure was right in that a rebuild might not even be worth it at this price point, but hey, it can’t hurt to know.

All of you have been super helpful. Thanks!

[EndlessAzure]

Originally Posted by jkamelo

Fantastic advice, thanks. I think for the reasons you listed above, I’m leaning more toward the CSGs or RCEs now. I don’t want useless damper clicks





CSG, that track looks fun as hell.

One last question for both RCE and CSG - what are your rebuild costs like? I don’t see it on your websites. Azure was right in that a rebuild might not even be worth it at this price point, but hey, it can’t hurt to know.

All of you have been super helpful. Thanks!

I'm sure the companies will chime in with their specific process, but it will likely be coordinated with manufacturer and be close to factory costs seen below (at least for the Tein system), which excludes shipping

Tein USA Rebuild Costs: https://www.tein.com/service/price_list.html

Basic overhaul for all 4 corners already sets you back $400. Then you need to account for shipping and any other repair parts that may be required.

[jkamelo]

Originally Posted by EndlessAzure

I'm sure the companies will chime in with their specific process, but it will likely be coordinated with manufacturer and be close to factory costs seen below (at least for the Tein system), which excludes shipping

Tein USA Rebuild Costs: https://www.tein.com/service/price_list.html

Basic overhaul for all 4 corners already sets you back $400. Then you need to account for shipping and any other repair parts that may be required.

Yikes, thanks for finding this. No rebuilds for this guy.

[DarkPira7e]

I vote Flex Z. It's simple, provide ample ride quality and adjustment, and not very expensive.

Why not consider something like the KWV1 or ST coilovers that use stock tophats?

[EndlessAzure]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

I vote Flex Z. It's simple, provide ample ride quality and adjustment, and not very expensive.

Why not consider something like the KWV1 or ST coilovers that use stock tophats?

The SS1 is also a KW based system from what I'm aware. Though the KWV1 or ST options could provide cost savings if there are specific performance features that you are willing to forego.

[jkamelo]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

I vote Flex Z. It's simple, provide ample ride quality and adjustment, and not very expensive.

Why not consider something like the KWV1 or ST coilovers that use stock tophats?

What would be the advantage of using the stock tophat? I’d lose camber adjustment, right?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by jkamelo

Yikes, thanks for finding this. No rebuilds for this guy.

ALL dampers, zero exceptions, need regular rebuilds to maintain peak performance.

Dampers work by controlling motion, by pushing oil through controlled passages. This oil wears out, and needs changing, just how your engine, transmission, and differential all need oil changes.