COVID Developments and News

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Unforgivable. I'll break out the torches and pitchforks.

Should that be tourches and pitchfourks?

(just kidding, I swear)

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Unforgivable. I'll break out the torches and pitchforks.

lol

It just seems everyone here is American except for one Brit and an occasional Greek. lol

I could easily use American spelling for everything online but I'm not aboot to do that.

PS I heard a video blogger use the word "aboot" repeatedly awhile ago. He was from Vancouver.

I prefer the way Newfies talk. I wish they could represent all Canadians. Eh,, buy.

PS- if you are polite/friendly with women in Newfoumdland, they sometimes address you as "luv". I luv it! My first girlfriend was from a newfie family and she somewhat resembled Daisy Mae from Lil Abner, for all you old timers.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Living Wage arguments aside, I can tell you that it applies well beyond entry level or lower paying jobs. I manage a department that right now has at last count about 10% of our approved headcount open and we are looking to hire. All these positions pay at or well above the current definition of "living wage", include full benefits with healthcare and 4 weeks vacation, and we are struggling to find candidates. Some of these are jobs that require little to no related experience.

Some of these positions have had zero applicants, in the last 3 weeks and we are basically training internal personnel to do more critical jobs to move the opens to less critical positions. The hiring struggle is real...

To some extent this may be a generational thing, but I can tell you that in past if I lost a job, I wasn't and unemployed this or an unemployed that, I was unemployed, and I took jobs to pay the bills until I found the right job. Just because you take an "underpaying" job to fill the gap doesn't mean you have to include it on your resume.

Is there going to be adequate flexibility to interview, prep, if you take a stop-gap job? Sure, lots of folks are going to basically work two jobs (one being job hunting) because they must. Plenty do. You get stuck there as often as not.

There are certainly lots of postings, but something is broken in the system. You should never have zero applicants - or is HR just rejecting them because of shitty software instead of people reviewing applicants? Is the job really that unappealing? If it requires specialized knowledge, how can that be gained without income to pay for classes? Or time because you need income to survive... And job search. And skill train. And sleep...
Expectations are now that candidates be above and beyond. 8 years experience in tech which has only existed for 3. Shit is broken. And I'm not sure individuals looking for work can help fix it. This one is on our very broken approach to running a business, I think.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by cjd

Is there going to be adequate flexibility to interview, prep, if you take a stop-gap job?

Actually there is much more flexibility to do this than there used to be, with gig jobs, etc. Bottom line is if you want to work you can and get the flexibility you need.

Originally Posted by cjd

There are certainly lots of postings, but something is broken in the system. You should never have zero applicants - or is HR just rejecting them because of shitty software instead of people reviewing applicants?

I see every application. I don't let HR filter them for me, but yes that can happen.

Originally Posted by cjd

Is the job really that unappealing? If it requires specialized knowledge, how can that be gained without income to pay for classes? Or time because you need income to survive... And job search. And skill train. And sleep...

I don't think any of the positions in my IT team are unappealing, and as I said they have full benefits, etc. All the checkmarks. We even take persons that are just graduating from high school and/or college for most positions as we hire at the bottom in most cases and promote up.

I have two positions that are Call Dispatch personnel, require minimal experience, we do all the training, but requires 12-hour shift work. Before COVID, we'd get 100 applicants for each opening within a week, with 20 or so that were worth considering. Now, it has taken us 4 weeks to get 5 decent candidates.

Originally Posted by cjd

Expectations are now that candidates be above and beyond. 8 years experience in tech which has only existed for 3. Shit is broken. And I'm not sure individuals looking for work can help fix it. This one is on our very broken approach to running a business, I think.

I know this one always gets trotted out, but you really don't see that very often, at least not from companies that do any serious review of their job descriptions and postings.

The bottom line is, there are decent jobs going unfilled right now. Yes, they may not be 100% work from home, with unlimited vacation time and a foot massage every Toe Tuesday, but if you want to work and are persistent, you can find a job at least in the market where I am.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

FFS, don't listen to this asshole.

I am embarassed to admit that I forgot who he was and started out being impressed. By the last post I put it all together and went back to carefully re-read. I started a half dozen rebuttals and finally gave up in frustration. Had to regroup. Still regrouping.

Originally Posted by MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires

they who? you're the ONLY one who brought up welfare in this thread.

I found that point particularly offensive.

[spike021]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I am embarassed to admit that I forgot who he was and started out being impressed. By the last post I put it all together and went back to carefully re-read. I started a half dozen rebuttals and finally gave up in frustration. Had to regroup. Still regrouping.

Did literally the same thing the other day, decided to just 'lol' and drop it.

[Lantanafrs2]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/new-ze...virus-response

[Lantanafrs2]

https://www.local10.com/news/florida...-since-july-5/

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Actually there is much more flexibility to do this than there used to be, with gig jobs, etc. Bottom line is if you want to work you can and get the flexibility you need.



I see every application. I don't let HR filter them for me, but yes that can happen.



I don't think any of the positions in my IT team are unappealing, and as I said they have full benefits, etc. All the checkmarks. We even take persons that are just graduating from high school and/or college for most positions as we hire at the bottom in most cases and promote up.

I have two positions that are Call Dispatch personnel, require minimal experience, we do all the training, but requires 12-hour shift work. Before COVID, we'd get 100 applicants for each opening within a week, with 20 or so that were worth considering. Now, it has taken us 4 weeks to get 5 decent candidates.



I know this one always gets trotted out, but you really don't see that very often, at least not from companies that do any serious review of their job descriptions and postings.

The bottom line is, there are decent jobs going unfilled right now. Yes, they may not be 100% work from home, with unlimited vacation time and a foot massage every Toe Tuesday, but if you want to work and are a persistent, you can find a job at least in the marke where I am.

Yeah, gig jobs, that's the ticket... sorry, can't even say that with a straight face. I mean, they exist but they're shit. At least right now. And they have certain limitations; need a car, need to be comfortable around complete strangers, need to be physically able, etc. Of the people I know currently looking for work, exactly none of them could just hop over to gig work. That's a small sample, and certainly shapes my perspective on the problem, but it's also very real.
And, IT is not quite as problematic a field as some, but I have colleagues who went over a year without work. LOTS of jobs they applied for. Wrong experience or too much experience or unable to accommodate kids with covid school shut-downs or... again, small sample, but also real.
You're lucky to see those applicants before filtering. That's pretty unusual these days, from what I hear.
Anyhow, 2.5yrs of 10+ applications a week for someone with almost entirely 'exceeds' reviews over the 18 years just at the last employer... and interviews? oh yes. Already up to 7 this week alone. Offers? Zero. Ability to gig work? not really. Not IT though.
How is it we have people looking so hard for work, and companies looking for workers, but they're not connecting? I mean, I do understand some of it - a job isn't everything when it's just a job. I keep hoping somehow mine turns back into something where I think I'm more than a piece on the board of some rich schmuck's game-board. "Same" employer has managed that in the past, but not really the same employer because buyout. Anyhow, this 'want something fulfilling' is certainly a reckoning brought on by Covid, but that brings me back to the question: Why aren't those available jobs appealing? And how do we make them so they are?
good salary and benefits doesn't cut it any more.
It's not always been the rat-race it is now. Honestly, I think we need companies to invest in their workforce and commit to them. Demonstrate commitment.

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by Spuds

"Slippery Slope" is a logical fallacy though...
https://www.britannica.com/topic/sli...slope-argument

Meth and heroine is legal in Oregon.

I think slippery slope can be overblown, but if you don't think you can gain miles one inch at a time...I don't know what to tell you.

The earth used to be the center of the universe.

Do you have kids? Or animals?

Have you let them get away with bad behavior and then it becomes.more frequent?

If you have, you have observed the slippery slop phenomenon.

Quit believing what academia tells you, and start thinking for yourself.

[Atropine]

@cjd and @Dadhawk

I have experienced what Dadhawk has experienced, so I don't need to reiterate what he said.

I am only speaking on what family and friends from other parts of the country have told me and what I have seen.

It is hard to get someone to work for 20$ an hour if the government gives you 22$ an hour..
My Dad lives on Hilton Head Island in South Carolina...
The Kroger there is offering 20$ an hour to bag groceries and be a cashier.
So many small shops and restaurants have closed down due to a lack of workers.
I think cold hungry people are more motivated to find work than warm well fed people who have unlimited time for Madden and Fishing.

About healthcare...we don't have enough space here for me to propose my solutions...and by the way my solutions would fix some problems and probably create more problems that I didn't think of.
That is a big problem in Healthcare now. Anyone who says "I can fix the hard problem that has existed for a long time'...just listen to them,but know it will at best be incomplete, at worst it will be misguided or nefarious.

About healthcare...yes, everyone should have access to basic Healthcare. If you want the above and beyond Healthcare, you pay extra.
There is a reason I have a "lifetime achievement medal" from St Judes.
If you have a sick kid, you should only have to worry about your sick kid...not also losing your house.

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I am embarassed to admit that I forgot who he was and started out being impressed. By the last post I put it all together and went back to carefully re-read. I started a half dozen rebuttals and finally gave up in frustration. Had to regroup. Still regrouping.



I found that point particularly offensive.

I brought up the welfare aspect to point out the double standard.
I was posting from work so its super choppy, but I didn't want to edit it and change stuff too much.

I guess I get annoyed at the race=trash argument.

If someone thinks that any group has a monopoly on those types of people,they need to get out more.
There are underachieving people everywhere.

I just hate veiled racism.

[MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires]

Originally Posted by Atropine

I brought up the welfare aspect to point out the double standard.
I was posting from work so its super choppy, but I didn't want to edit it and change stuff too much.

I guess I get annoyed at the race=trash argument.

If someone thinks that any group has a monopoly on those types of people,they need to get out more.
There are underachieving people everywhere.

I just hate veiled racism.

[cjd]

I mean, none of this has a simple answer. Well, it does, but it won't work. So we deal with more complicated answers.
If a job isn't attractive, it isn't attractive. I don't really care WHY it isn't, but figure it out and try to address the issue. There is always a way. It may not be sustainable, but that is NOT because the job should be attractive for less; the goal in modern business is ALWAYS to make you do more for less. But if it's not sustainable, perhaps it is because the ability of a given business to squeeze every ounce out of its employees has reached its limit. Maybe it's a temporary bubble and soon you'll have people seeking those jobs.

The rich don't earn their money. Bezos was very clear, he was nearly in space because ALL his employees had worked SO hard to earn him that money so he could limp along on his pathetic whiny excuse of a rocket company and ride high in a giant penis. He knows he's earning more for every hour his employees work than they do.
Anyhoo. How is this relevant? We've lost our way as a society. Academia isn't always right - but that's how it works. Never stop seeking answers, validating answers, exploring. But think for yourself? Unless you're an expert, or are actively building expertise directly - that doesn't always cut it. So we have random schmucks saying their opinion is worth more than experts, and their only evidence is "well, the expert changed their recommendation" like a good expert should do as they learn more? Or experts slicing data very carefully because for some reason they're upset about this particular vaccine in a different way than ANY of the others; like, massive increase in religious exemptions from people who happily take Tylenol or whatever, when in fact if said religious exemption were real... they'd not. Ok sure, some may actually say "oh shit, I need to stop doing that" but... we're fucked, because there is no WE. just ME. Selfish bastards all of us. We deserve to die off.