Official: New Alpine A110

[ACT86]

Depends on the examples you pick. The 86 isn’t a particularly economical small car. My wife’s small 200kw, 1200kg hot hatch gets under 6 litres per hundred on average and a mate’s family Toyota Kluger uses more than double that (often into the 15s around town). Both have the same power, one just carries an extra tonne of mass.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by soundman98

but look at the numbers. a 2019 86, a nearly textbook example of a small, lightweight, barebones car, only manages to achieve 21mpg city/ 28mpg highway.

the 2019 kia sorrento for an example, in all it's 'heft' lays claim to 22mpg city/29mpg highway.

so the SUV is more efficient by the numbers, even if it's only 1 mpg... if one's got a family, there's really no difference, so people are understandably buying the biggest thing that they can afford that suits their needs. small cars have a ton of caveats. i'm single and i don't even like taking the 86 for grocery shopping. no matter how few bags i get, it always somehow turns into a champion-level tetris game...

The automatic 86 was 24/33. I think the 8 speed transmission in the Sorento helps. If these CUVs don’t have a CVT then they have a million gears approximating a CVT. The larger displacement engine probably makes more torque down low, so the engine doesn’t need to be revved out past a torque dip to move the car. For what it’s worth, the 2019 Kia Forte does 31/41 city/highway, so light weight still wins; the SUV/CUV isn’t a win/win.

[Irace86.2.0]

Crash tests aren’t really a thing driving size the way people are talking about or a Miata and a Fiat 500 couldn’t exist. Yes, vehicles are bigger than their predecessors, and part of that is based on crash standards, but the drive to SUVs and bigger trucks is a cultural thing and a marketing thing.



Styling trends change over time. A huge sedan could be a two door coupe too in the past. America has always liked big vehicles, but they just had a different shape. Trucks, SUVs and CUVs are just more practical and easy, and people are just less interested in style or being different. This is also evident in the landscape of black, white and silver vehicles; there isn’t a whole lot of colors because it is more practical to buy something that sells well, that is safe, and manufacturers don’t want to build inventory for colors that don’t sell. People don’t want to pay extra for color. People in general don’t have the money for vehicles like they use to, so they try to maximize their money on space, safety, utility.



Luxury vehicles seem to defy the rest of the industry. There are still CUVs that sell better than other models, but then you have brands like BMW that has a sedan at every size and in coupe and sedan forms, and in two and four door variants like it creates a 4-series coupe to differentiate against a 3-series sedan, but then it makes a four-door GT variant of the 4-series. Apparently BMW can build a million different variants to satisfy everyone in tge market and still make a profit, but every other manufacturer needs to ditch their coupes or cars all together (ex: Civic coupe, Ford).

I think I’m ranting and lost my point.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by soundman98

but look at the numbers. a 2019 86, a nearly textbook example of a small, lightweight, barebones car, only manages to achieve 21mpg city/ 28mpg highway… the 2019 kia sorrento for an example, in all it's 'heft' lays claim to 22mpg city/29mpg highway.

That’s because the 86 has a NA engine geared to try and achieve respectable HP and acceleration numbers and be somewhat exciting - economy was almost an afterthought. The KIA Sorrento has an entirely different engine and gearing - high revving excitement was not high on the priority list.

Put the engine and transmission from the Sorrento into the 86 and the 86 would murder the Sorrento’s economy numbers, even if it was less fun to drive. Likewise, put the 86’s engine and gearing into the Sorrento and watch the economy get far worse. There is no doubt that if you controlled the key variable by using the exact same engine and transmission in both a coupe and SUV, the lower, lighter, more aerodynamic coupe will be more economical, because physics.

if one's got a family, there's really no difference

Why on earth would someone with a family buy an 86 if it is their only car? It’s a sports car, not a family hauler.

so people are understandably buying the biggest thing that they can afford that suits their needs.

Yes, I know, that’s what saddens me. So many people I know would be just as well served with a nice hatchback or wagon - just as much space, better handling, and the potential for better economy (as long as we aren’t comparing a less economical sports car engine to a low powered econo-SUV engine).

I see so many people commuting to work, or just driving to the shops alone or with only one passenger, in giant ass SUVs and it is just more car than they objectively need. Yes, I understand the myth that ‘bigger is better’ but it isn’t always which was my point. Sometimes bigger is just an unnecessary waste of resources and space. And as a result of the bigger is better mentality, the rest of us have to put up with these giant road hogs.

small cars have a ton of caveats. i'm single and i don't even like taking the 86 for grocery shopping. no matter how few bags i get, it always somehow turns into a champion-level tetris game...

Sounds like maybe you bought the wrong car.. for you. I never had a problem fitting my grocery shop in my 86 or now in my Z.

But this is largely beside the point, I wasn’t arguing small sports coupes are the logical alternative to SUVs for people needing a practical vehicle, I was pointing out that other types of regular car like hatchbacks and wagons are just as practical and more efficient than most SUVs and would suit most people’s needs just fine if it wasn’t for automotive ‘fashion’ which dictates SUVs are the default vehicle choice nowadays. A coupe might not compete with an SUV for practicality, but a good hatchback or wagon sure can. Indeed, many SUVs are merely more expensive, jacked up, high riding hatchbacks anyway… case in point, the Subaru XV, which is literally a more expensive, high riding Impreza hatchback.

[nikitopo]

[nikitopo]