Are aggressive semi slicks instant suicide in the rain?

[lapsio]

Originally Posted by bkd705

But, to keep the convo going. I live in Canada and for about half of our "track" season we're around that 18c mark or cooler (ie. I'm going to track on Saturday and its supposed to be 14c). No issues running RS4s, Nankang CRS, A052, or other similar 200tw. Going that direction you'd have much better tire life and less worries about rain etc.

Well... technically Cup 2 Connect's are already 200tw so I feel like following such recommendations I'm just gonna buy exactly the same thing in different package and be just as disappointed as I am now. But idk, maybe it's just those particular tires that are so offensively bad when not warmed up properly. On the other hand 595RS-R are probably even worse now when I think about it... I might be jumping from Extreme to Extreme (*wheeze*) choices but that's related to fact that I simply didn't try out a lot of UUHP/semi slick tires yet so I don't really know what are realistic expectations. I tried few tires and few of them worked, but most didn't - so I noted down characteristic of those which do and those which don't and drew my conclusions. Those super soft TW80 Extremes kinda spoiled me because they were just soooo good in almost all scenarios when it was colder out there :/ meh. In fact they still worked when there was like 15-16c outside. They outperformed my winter tires in winter on dry by A LOT. They only started getting muddy and fall apart recently when temps started spiking above 22c on some days. And the day I changed to those Cup 2s I was like... oh... oh, that's bad. That's terrible actually. I hate it.

I thought that at very least those Cup 2's will last some time - but they didn't even do that. When I brought them for tire swap it turned out that rear tires were completely wasted. After just 3 months of usage year ago. And front ones are not much better (like maybe 1.5-2mm tread left till it's gonna hit WI, there's no way they'll make it till end of summer). So not only they grip like sh*t in my use case but don't even survive all that long... Basically my disappointment with those tires is immeasurable and my day was ruined when I had to switch to them. Well Federals on my MX5 are at least cheap so you can say that well yeah, they're crap but good bang for the buck so whatever. But when I was initially buying those Cup 2s I paid for them like 260$ (usd) each due to limited availability in my size so at the end of the day they were expensive af, gripped like sh*t, lasted 3 months. 0/10 Will never buy again...

Leaving that rant aside, I talked about this topic with few more friends and people selling tires for competitions and they recommended me Dunlop Direzza 03G in soft compound. But guess what - 03G is actually not made in soft compound in my size (only in sizes that would fit my MX5) so SOL again... What is wrong with soft tires? Why there's almost no soft compound tires with E mark out there? It seems that other options recommended for hill climb and other applications requiring immediate grip are Maxsport and Extreme (in question) which are widely offered in softer compounds... I'm also still a little bit resonating towards Nankang AR-1 since so many people praise their immediate hook up. Even though they look a bit like suicide. Idk I guess I'll try either those VR2 Extremes in soft compound or AR-1 and if they're gonna be too dodgy in the wet I'm gonna think what next... That said now when I think about it, I doubt VR2 will be all that bad since in softer compounds they're marketed as damp tire in the first place.

[Clipdat]

How old are you and how many years have you been driving total?

[lapsio]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

How old are you and how many years have you been driving total?

27, 7

[Clipdat]

Sounds about right.

[lapsio]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Sounds about right.

Good. At least I'm statistically predictable.

[Clipdat]

When I was in my 20s I didn't know dicĸ about shit, but I sure thought I did.

[lapsio]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

When I was in my 20s I didn't know dicĸ about shit, but I sure thought I did.

So what's your experience based recommendation in such case? xD I'm here just to hear it. If I wasn't I'd just straight away go and buy what I initially planned without any prior consultation.

[Clipdat]

My recommendation is put on 17x9 with 245/40 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S and stop driving like a fucking asshole in public.

[lapsio]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

My recommendation is put on 17x9 with 245/40 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S and stop driving like a fucking asshole in public.

I actually considered PS4S and wanted to get them back in the day but they weren't available in my size (225/40r18) where I live hence I went with Cup 2 and it was sh*t idea... That said I see that now there's Continental SportContact 7 which seems to be new PS4S and it is actually available in that size so idk... Maybe :T

[ZDan]

My 0.02: Yokohama A052 with some tread depth are *amazeballz* in the wet.

[lapsio]

Originally Posted by ZDan

My 0.02: Yokohama A052 with some tread depth are *amazeballz* in the wet.

Wait... what's up with A052, this site claims it has 40c optimal temps and A grade wet handling which kinda sounds like soft semi slick...

https://www.adamsandpage.co.uk/motor...%20or%2020lbs.

Do they really hook up so fast? Because it sounds quite good actually if it's true... They got my full attention. From what I see they're even sometimes compared to Extreme VR2 in R7A compound so exactly the ones I considered and well... Yoko's are not retreaded tires so I believe should be less sketchy, safer and have more reasonable tread pattern, should work in wet... And wear out extremely fast which I don't care about because that's understandable price for grip. They sound extremely good so far.

Something I don't really understand though - people say they wear out quickly... But like, what?... I mean they're TW200. How some TW200 tires could wear out faster than other TW200 tires? isn't like "TW200" the very definition of how fast tire wears out?... Aren't all TW200 tires wearing out at the same speed?...

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by lapsio

Something I don't really understand though - people say they wear out quickly... But like, what?... I mean they're TW200. How some TW200 tires could wear out faster than other TW200 tires? isn't like "TW200" the very definition of how fast tire wears out?... Aren't all TW200 tires wearing out at the same speed?...

Treadwear ratings are not regulated and every manufacturer can put whatever they want there. They sometimes make sense in the manufacturer's lineup (so a Michelin tire with 600 TW should last twice as long as another Michelin tire with 300 TW), but even that's no guaranteed. If you go to the sporty/track oriented low TW tires all logic goes out of the window, with manufacturer's sometimes putting arbitrarily seeming TW ratings to meet certain race classes (same tires being offered in multiple TWs, or drastically changing TW between years of production without any noticeable difference in wear or performance).

Specifically for the 200 TW category (Extreme Performance) there are the "cheater tires" that behave more like 100TW (in grip and wear) - RT660, A052 and RE-71RS are leading this sub-category. All three are 200 TW but they are about 2 seconds a minute faster than something like RS4 (which is also 200 TW) and wear significantly faster as well.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by lapsio

Wait... what's up with A052, this site claims it has 40c optimal temps and A grade wet handling which kinda sounds like soft semi slick...

Do they really hook up so fast?

Yes, even on cold/damp track days they are up to temp enough after a lap. I just ran 3-lap time-trial in those conditions on Sunday and they kicked ass, I beat my #1 nemesis in the same run group by like 0.18s Unfortunately another in my class ran later in the day in the dry and got me tho :'(

Something I don't really understand though - people say they wear out quickly... But like, what?... I mean they're TW200. How some TW200 tires could wear out faster than other TW200 tires? isn't like "TW200" the very definition of how fast tire wears out?... Aren't all TW200 tires wearing out at the same speed?...

As already stated above, treadwear rating is kind of up to the manufacturer. In the US we have roadrace/timetrial/autoX classes where 200tw is required, so manufacturers make super-sticky compound tires and give them that 200tw rating. I don't know how many miles you'd get out of them on the street, but probably less than 10k miles I would guess...

[lapsio]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Yes, even on cold/damp track days they are up to temp enough after a lap. I just ran 3-lap time-trial in those conditions on Sunday and they kicked ass, I beat my #1 nemesis in the same run group by like 0.18s Unfortunately another in my class ran later in the day in the dry and got me tho :'(

Awesome! I asked about A052 my friends and it turns out my colleague at work used them back in the day when he was frequently rallying and autocrossing his Saxo and he said it was amazing tyre. So considering that they turn on almost immediately, they're soft, they're not threat to your own and other people's lives in wet... Are there any notable disadvantages of such tires comparing to UUHP? (other than noise, ride comfort, economy, cost and other life comfort bs stuff which is completely irrelevant because racecar goes brr?)

I always assumed that main problem with slicks on street and why people discourage using them on street is mostly that they require significant warm up and that they're usually suicide in wet if you go with something without much tread - which seemed to be true for me when I was using hard slicks - Cup 2 and 595RS-R. But soft ones don't seem to suffer from warmup problem and due to softer compound they're typically so-so in wet as well... I already experienced that with Extreme VR1 W5 and Extreme VR3 W3 which worked perfectly fine in street use cases. So I don't see any other disadvantages?... I'd like to form some very oversimplified conclusions regarding usage of motorsport tires on street and for now they go as follows:

hard semi slick:
- requires warmup (bad)
- bad wet performance because of hard compound
- dangerous in cold weather
+ superb and more stable, longer lasting performance in case somehow you manage to warm them up

soft track tire:
- a bit worse wet performance but in many cases not dangerously bad
- still too hard for winter temps
- probably fall apart on race track relatively soon
+ stellar performance
+ don't require any particularly intense warmup

super soft/wet track tire:
- melts, cracks and dangerously falls apart in warmer weather
- don't work on snow but nobody cares
+ stellar performance
+ for me actually required less warmup than winter tyre
+ works basically as long as temps don't drop significantly below 0
+ you don't waste your time choosing radio station because you can't hear anything other than tyres anyways

It skips economy/longevity factor of course. For now I have 4 sets of tires that I'm changing depending on temperatures and seasons and I believe it kinda covers full spectrum :T

Falken Eurowinter - snow
Extreme VR3 W3 - winter without snow (0-30c operating temps)
Extreme VR1 W5 - autumn/spring above 0 (20-40c operating temps)
and now probably A052 (instead of Cup 2) - summer (40-60c operating temps)

Does it sort of make sense or am I still missing something in this general concept or misunderstood something?... (apart from common sense that is)