Potential Cause of rumored GR86’s blown engine? Seal packing(RTV) was peeled off

[Opie]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Keep running it and let us know how long it goes without windowing the block, because it will.

Duh, I know it will, eventually. Just saying that the short amount of time driven in the video shouldn't have caused it to so soon.

[Spektyr]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

Though what you say makes perfect sense to do, I don't know that it should exceed the limits of your warranty. The fact that there IS a problem that then MAY or MAY NOT lead to your dead engine shortly after, is where the warranty should have no such limit.

Here's what you're saying in a different example: My radio is having an issue, so it should be covered under warranty. I kept using it anyway, regardless of the issue, and it completely stopped working now, so it therefore exceeded the limits of the warranty.

Doesn't make sense. Sure, I agree 100% that he may have saved his engine by shutting off the vehicle ASAP. But warranty wise, whatever the problem was, it existed regardless.

Okay, here's a better example of why you're wrong:

You get a nail in a tire with road hazard coverage. You keep driving on it while it's flat and you completely shred the tire, damage the wheel, and none of your warranties cover that because you ignored signs of impending damage. If you'd stopped when the tire went flat, everything would have been covered. ALL warranties require the owner to take reasonable action to correct/avoid problems. Failing to do that voids the warranty.


If damage is done by something covered under warranty, but you ignore it and keep driving the damage PAST that point is not covered because you chose to cause it.

Again - I'm not saying that's what happened here, I'm simply saying that based on the VERY limited evidence we have there's at least the possibility that part of the reason the claim was denied may have been that there appears to be wanton disregard for the engine past the point where the warning lights came on.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Dake

Has the manual changed? The old manual still said that was a permitted formulation.

only temporarily.

this is a straight copy/paste from the 2023 manual, but i believe the gen-1 manual read the same for the america's. in other countries manuals, 5w-30 was in the same section and allowed based on availability. that was where a lot of people get the idea that it's allowed. but the american manual doesn't state it, which means the american warranty can't apply.

Originally Posted by page 382, 2023 manual

0W-20 synthetic oil is the required oil
for optimum engine performance and
protection. Conventional oil may be
used if synthetic oil is unavailable.
*: If 0W-20 synthetic oil is not available, 5W-30 conventional oil may
be used if you need to add oil.
However, you should change to
0W-20 synthetic oil at the next oil
change.

he said he filled the car with 5w-30, which is where/how they can outright deny warranty coverage, even if he fights them on the track usage.

at this point, the only saving grace he's got is public outcry.

just for fun, i looked up my 2014 manual, it doesn't even list 5w-30 as an option:

Originally Posted by page 416, 2014 owners manual

■ Engine oil selection
Always use SUBARU approved engine oil. For details, we recommend that you contact your SUBARU dealer.
If approved engine oil is unavailable, another motor oil of matching
quality can also be used.
Oil grade:
ILSAC GF4 or GF5 multigrade engine oil
API classification SM or SN with the words fENERGY CONSERVINGh or fRESOURCE CONSERVINGh
Recommended viscosity: SAE 0W-20
SAE 0W-20 is the best choice for
good fuel economy and good
starting in cold weather.

[Dake]

Originally Posted by soundman98

only temporarily.

this is a straight copy/paste from the 2023 manual, but i believe the gen-1 manual read the same for the america's. in other countries manuals, 5w-30 was in the same section and allowed based on availability. that was where a lot of people get the idea that it's allowed. but the american manual doesn't state it, which means the american warranty can't apply.

he said he filled the car with 5w-30, which is where/how they can outright deny warranty coverage, even if he fights them on the track usage.

at this point, the only saving grace he's got is public outcry.

just for fun, i looked up my 2014 manual, it doesn't even list 5w-30 as an option:

Now that I'm home I could check, but pg 344 of my 2013's manual just says 0W-20 is "recommended" and "the best choice for fuel economy and good starting in cold weather".

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Spektyr

Okay, here's a better example of why you're wrong:
.

That's true with just about any type of warranty/insurance. A pot of grease on you stove catches fire, you go outside and watch your house burn down before calling the fire department, very unlikely you insurance company is going to cover it when they find out.

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by Opie

Duh, I know it will, eventually. Just saying that the short amount of time driven in the video shouldn't have caused it to so soon.

I went from initial knock to windowed block in <60 seconds...

a friend with an FA20 went from tossed rocker to absolutely obliterated engine due to oil pressure loss in <10 seconds.


YMMV

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

I went from initial knock to windowed block in <60 seconds...

a friend with an FA20 went from tossed rocker to absolutely obliterated engine due to oil pressure loss in <10 seconds.


YMMV

Mine was 10-20 seconds from the time I noticed power loss, looked at my gauge and saw no oil pressure, to bang.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Opie

Duh, I know it will, eventually. Just saying that the short amount of time driven in the video shouldn't have caused it to so soon.

It’s impossible to draw such a conclusion. What was the spec on the bearing clearance on the car in the video? Was it on the tight side of tolerance or the loose side?

[Ultramaroon]

Some of you may call bullshit but I swear I hear the telltale chugging sound right from the beginning. Listen to whenever he gooses it at lower revs. Rod bearing scuffing under load.

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by Spektyr

Okay, here's a better example of why you're wrong:

You get a nail in a tire with road hazard coverage. You keep driving on it while it's flat and you completely shred the tire, damage the wheel, and none of your warranties cover that because you ignored signs of impending damage. If you'd stopped when the tire went flat, everything would have been covered. ALL warranties require the owner to take reasonable action to correct/avoid problems. Failing to do that voids the warranty.


If damage is done by something covered under warranty, but you ignore it and keep driving the damage PAST that point is not covered because you chose to cause it.

Again - I'm not saying that's what happened here, I'm simply saying that based on the VERY limited evidence we have there's at least the possibility that part of the reason the claim was denied may have been that there appears to be wanton disregard for the engine past the point where the warning lights came on.

But that's not the same warranty coverage example... that's like saying your engine is only covered until detrimental damage starts to occur, then it's beyond your coverage. Road hazard coverage is the wrong use of warranty here. The kind of tire warranty that would compare would be more like "the whole tire is covered, no matter the damage". I've had such a case, and it was fully covered - because that's the warranty I had.

Just to be clear, I'm not here to say that this guy deserves a covered engine. I am only disputing your original statement of warranty coverage over whether he continued to drive it or not after damage had already occurred. That just can't be a reason for warranty denial. Say I'm driving home from work on a highway and my oil pressure light comes on. I need a bit of time to merge over a few lanes to pull over and my engine blows in that process. Does this mean I ignored the warning and therefore my engine should not be covered under warranty (in a perfect scenario of a fully stock vehicle with up to date maintenance of course)? No, it absolutely should, because whatever fault was there, was there. The fact that I drove it to a further fault does not give the original problem any justification.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

I am only disputing your original statement of warranty coverage over whether he continued to drive it or not after damage had already occurred. That just can't be a reason for warranty denial. Say I'm driving home from work on a highway and my oil pressure light comes on. I need a bit of time to merge over a few lanes to pull over and my engine blows in that process. Does this mean I ignored the warning and therefore my engine should not be covered under warranty (in a perfect scenario of a fully stock vehicle with up to date maintenance of course)? No, it absolutely should, because whatever fault was there, was there. The fact that I drove it to a further fault does not give the original problem any justification.

This would be the "reasonable person" test - if Average Joe would take several minutes to find a safe place to pull over on a busy highway, the warranty should be honored even if the engine grenaded. Driving 100 miles with a Christmas light dash, probably not.
Problem is that everyone has a different definition of the "reasonable person", so it might very well require going to court over.

[vindiesel]

[Clipdat]

lol @ proud partners of Permatex.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by soundman98

only temporarily.
he said he filled the car with 5w-30, which is where/how they can outright deny warranty coverage, even if he fights them on the track usage.

at this point, the only saving grace he's got is public outcry.

just for fun, i looked up my 2014 manual, it doesn't even list 5w-30 as an option:

Still, no reasonable person would ascribe such engine failures to use of 5w30 when there's RTV blocking oil flow in the engine.

Also, I don't think they would *necessarily* deny the warranty claim based on 5w30 synthetic.

My advice: if you do run 5w30 during warranty period, don't tell anyone about it...