Jackson Racing C38-81 Supercharger - CARB legal

[byun]

Originally Posted by Rapiddan45

Sure did! And gotta hand it to Jackson racing, their packaging is superb. Got a good portion done tonight, hoping to have everything finished in the next few days.

How the rest of the install go?


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[VitViper]

Gains with E65 (still had 3 gallons of pump gas in the tank) over 92 octane.



Gains over stock.


With E85 it'd probably be close to 350 on this dyno.

So roughly "400hp" on the miracle dyno.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by VitViper

Gains with E65 (still had 3 gallons of pump gas in the tank) over 92 octane.



Gains over stock.


With E85 it'd probably be close to 350 on this dyno.

So roughly "400hp" on the miracle dyno.

Oh I think you can do better than that. This is on "just" a C30 on the miracle dyno. Also on a stock engine.

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Oh I think you can do better than that. This is on "just" a C30 on the miracle dyno. Also on a stock engine.

Could probably make 450 on the miracle dyno with a C38. Done it before with setups on other cars that don't make more than 380 elsewhere.

Lol...

[Rapiddan45]

Originally Posted by byun

How the rest of the install go?


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Rest of the install went perfect, took a total of about 6 hours by myself with plenty of breaks. Also installed the Jackson racing oil cooler,radium pcv catch can and changed the diff/trans to motul 300 in that time. Instructions were great as to be expected with JR. The pulley cover for the ac compressor had to be trimmed more than what the outline they had provided though. Not difficult though and to be expected seeing how much larger the c38 is. Ecutek with the delicious tune will be here tomorrow so I can fire her up and test it out tomorrow evening. But here is a pic after completed.

[byun]

Originally Posted by Rapiddan45

Rest of the install went perfect, took a total of about 6 hours by myself with plenty of breaks. Also installed the Jackson racing oil cooler,radium pcv catch can and changed the diff/trans to motul 300 in that time. Instructions were great as to be expected with JR. The pulley cover for the ac compressor had to be trimmed more than what the outline they had provided though. Not difficult though and to be expected seeing how much larger the c38 is. Ecutek with the delicious tune will be here tomorrow so I can fire her up and test it out tomorrow evening. But here is a pic after completed.

Nice looking good! My kit is showing up next week. Looking forward to getting it in.


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[Aaronimoe]

What minimum supporting mods would I need If I got the C38? at only 100 bucks more it seems like it'd be waste not to get it. *Are the stock internals ok? I understand new pumps, injectors, flex fuel is recommended but would everything else be ok till I get those mods? assuming I have a good conservative tune?

Edit*

[Rapiddan45]

Originally Posted by Aaronimoe

What minimum supporting mods would I need If I got the C38? at only 100 bucks more it seems like it'd be waste not to get it.

Nothing additional is required. It will work with a bone stock car on the carb tune.

[Aaronimoe]

Originally Posted by Rapiddan45

Nothing additional is required. It will work with a bone stock car on the carb tune.

Sorry I forgot to mention this would be on a custom e-tune. I guess everything would still be ok as long as my tuner doesn't over do it? does he have that much control when tuning superchargers?

[Rapiddan45]

Originally Posted by Aaronimoe

Sorry I forgot to mention this would be on a custom e-tune. I guess everything would still be ok as long as my tuner doesn't over do it? does he have that much control when tuning superchargers?

Yes it should still be fine as long as you are using the pulley supplied and not the HBP.

[Aaronimoe]

Ok thanks. Yea that makes sense now. I was wondering if there could be any other detrimental effects of having a bigger blower producing the same power. But since they both produce the same power on the CARB tunes then there probably isn't.

[Rapiddan45]

Originally Posted by Aaronimoe

Ok thanks. Yea that makes sense now. I was wondering if there could be any other detrimental effects of having a bigger blower producing the same power. But since they both produce the same power on the CARB tunes then there probably isn't.

The C38 just has a much higher overhead for future improvements, so your not taxing it to the max, like the c30 is on the HBP.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Aaronimoe

What minimum supporting mods would I need If I got the C38? at only 100 bucks more it seems like it'd be waste not to get it. *Are the stock internals ok? I understand new pumps, injectors, flex fuel is recommended but would everything else be ok till I get those mods? assuming I have a good conservative tune?

Edit*

Unless you're using a smaller pulley than the default pulley, no supporting mods are necessary, other than an appropriate tune.

[SPCorBUST]

Originally Posted by VitViper

Nope nope nope nope nope and just more nope. You're quoting one dyno from one car on probably the highest reading dyno in the country. It reads so high it's an ongoing joke. I have bolt on Civics that dyno 260 on that dyno... which dyno 210-215 anywhere else... LOL.

It's a great dyno as a tuning tool, but if anyone takes the numbers from there at face value, I have to wonder if they still drink from one of these.


Here's just one example of many... same car, same setup, just rolled over to that dyno the very next day after tuning it for miracle #'s and things to laugh about over drinks that night.

Realistic #'s: http://pics.fullavit.com/tuned/mike_sc_aftercooler.jpg
Miracle #'s: http://pics.fullavit.com/tuned/mike_si_29.jpg

That dyno has it's head in the clouds.

This is going to be an un-scientific comparison, but its as good as I think it can get it.

The very first thread in the Engine, Exhaust, and Transmission sub-forum is on the general calculated differences between Mustang, Dynojet, and Dynapack dynos.

According to that, the community *should* understand as a general reference that Dynapacks are marked as reading 8-10% higher than Dynojets. The numbers you posted are 374.382 on the Dynapack and 328.55 on the Dynojet. If we run a 10% difference for your numbers between dynos, then:

374.382 Dynapack * .9 Dynojet correcter = 336.9438whp Dynojet corrected

Its hard to believe that a 8 hp difference would even remotely be considered as so far off that it's head is "in the clouds" given your stated number of 328.55 and the general rule of thumb, differences in weather between the two days, and whether this is a worst run to best run comparison.

Originally Posted by VitViper

Realistically expect 320-340 on your more down to earth dyno on E85, maybe 350ish on a little higher reading dyno.

To regularly expect 320-340whp on a Dynojet seems extremely conservative. Personal experience with a C38 and E85 tells me its higher, especially with supporting mods.

A while back, I put down 330whp with a C38 on a Mustang dyno. There are folks with C38's in the KW Owner's thread that have made more than that (albeit on Dynapacks, but when corrected, they were still higher). Again, using the general rule of thumb that Mustangs read 12% lower than Dynojets, then correcting for that: (nevermind that where I did it they claim its a 17% difference compared to other local Dynojets)

330 Mustang * 1.12 Dynojet correcter = C38 369.6whp Dynojet corrected (rule of thumb)
330 Mustang * 1.17 Dynojet correcter = C38 386.1whp Dynojet corrected (their stated difference based on local Dynojet comparisons)

That was with the stock headers, overpipe, and front pipe, and not a lot of tuning time.

I'm currently at 370whp from the Dynapack. Again, following the rule of thumb:

370 Dynapack * .9 Dynojet correcter = C30 HBP 333whp Dynojet corrected

386 (C38 old setup, Dynojet corrected) - 333 (C30 HBP new setup, Dynojet corrected) = 53 hp difference, not maxed out

Driving between the two cars, that difference seems to be about right. That makes going back to a C38 enticing, especially given that neither setup was actually set up to achieve their full potential. I still have a bit of room left on the C30 with the high boost pulley, IMO. I believe I might be able to hit the 340-350whp Dynojet mark (and higher on the Dynapack) with a different header and overpipe setup, a fuel pump change, and some additional tuning time.

TL;DR
Only being able to hit 320-340 on a regular dyno (seems to be a Dynojet dyno) with a C38 seems factually incorrect, and the "Miracle" dyno does not have "its head in the clouds." The publicly posted dyno numbers from community members and general, readily available information on the differences calculated between dyno types in the community/this forum seem to corroborate that. I might do some back-to-back dyno testing to see some differences for myself after my next tuning appointment.