Is ACE header discontinued? Anyone interested in making a replica?

[tomm.brz]

i know that, that s why i have myself a A350
it gives me a good torque when under 5k eith my supercharger

but at high rpm peak HP a guy with skunk2 header blows me up

I just answered to Teseo who wrote Ace 350 headers give maximum HP, that s not true, they are restrictive at high rpm, they give you Torque under the curve

you d need A150 or anaconda or crossfire ace to reach maximum HP

[spcmafia]

Originally Posted by ok1886

As topic, I'm in Ontario Canada and searched some posts about EL headers, seems like the ACE A350 got pretty positive reviews years ago, but also seems like they almost discontinued on official website.
Found Subiedepot and ft86motorsports still have products for special order, but I also contacted a Chinese factory which can make replica for it under 1000CAD but need 20 orders to start production, anyone still interested in the first gen brz/86 and looking for a header like that?

There's someone selling an almost new ACE header.
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...70#post3521270

[MrSkubi]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

but at high rpm peak HP a guy with skunk2 header blows me up

Blows you up where ? Are you talking about real life performance or comparing dyno graph numbers ?

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by MrSkubi

Blows you up where ? Are you talking about real life performance or comparing dyno graph numbers ?

it is pretty proved that A350 gives more mid scavenging but top-end is affected by the longer runners


i have 2 friends other than me, that i tuned and we all have similar boost around 0.9Bar.. same fuel, they have HKS EL and SKUNK2 4-1 EL, i have the ace A350
They easily get 20+ HP as peak power more than me, but i get much more low and mid torque.. the skunk2 one still has an evident torque dip but reaches the highest ignition timing at high rpm with the same AFR
So yes, both real life performance and dyno figures, short EL give more peak power than ace a350


same happens for NA stock engine , it s not like a new discover

[MrSkubi]

I can’t speak for FI application but I do have slightly different real life experience with tracking my NA ACE equipped car against another BRZ with HKS EL (both cars tuned by the same tuner, custom maf corrected CAI in the other car, similiar peak hp numbers iirc, more weight in my car - passenger).

[SuperTom]

Any issues with a weld cracking most likely using old motor mounts shifting around. My mounts were new and I still switched over to more solid Perrin mounts

[Spawn_Of_Creation]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It was never "just a header".

It's a long tube header that uses up the entire space occupied by the stock header and overpipe. In other words, it's both a header AND an overpipe; the comparable JDL setup would actually be $1550.

The welds are done slowly and carefully enough that there is virtually zero heat expansion, stress, or discoloration. The sheer amount of welding is significantly greater. Rather than using low cost slip-fits like the JDL, the Ace is seam welded.

While the JDL 4-2-1 is a great product and the best performing header widely available, it is very much designed to also reduce production cost. The Ace was never designed with cost reduction in mind; it's a no-holds-barred header designed with performance prioritized above cost.

Not to mention that the only difference between the 350, 250, and 150 are the overripe, and they are designed with the idea to be swappable for their designed use case at a cheaper install cost and labor time than a whole header.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Basically this.

Ace's welds were top notch, and it was obvious when you looked at the end product. The ultimate power and powerband speaks for itself. Unfortunately, the general concensus is that FRS/BRZ guys will take a product that gives you 80% of the gains for 20% of the price. Porsche owners on the other hand, are willing to pay a 80% premium for a 20% larger gain. Case in point, a GT3 owner who pays 180k for a 500hp car, vs a Mustang owner who pays 40k for a 460hp car.

Some used Ace headers are still exchanging hands.


Nameless is plagued with copies.

I didn’t really see the welds being that great. The used header I bought had cracked at the head flange and had been repaired. I inspected the other welds and found penetration to be lacking on most of them. I added my large, amateur welds to reinforce the pieces. I think the differences between the Ace header and other cheaper examples from eBay aren’t the welds, as much as, the quality of the metal used and the overall design. EBay metal seems thinner and seems like it is an alloy that isn’t a true 304, but a cheap 409 or something. EBay turbo manifolds are notoriously made out of the same thin-walled steel that headers are made out of instead of cast Schedule 10 stainless tubing.

Based on the welds I saw, my guess is they are using the same type of cheap, low-skill, cold welding technique demonstrated in the videos below. It can be done by machine or low-skill laborer. It leaves prettier welds with uniform size and shape with minimal heat/staining into the metal, so sanding/finishing may not be necessary. The process results in poorer penetration, which is why cracks happen along the fisheyes. It results in less fill of the joint too and more of a concave joint, especially when filler rod isn’t used, and while some concavity is typical of thick joints, it isn’t ideal on 16g, thin-walled pipe. I could be wrong, but I have my suspicions. I would love to be proven wrong.

Example:

Explanation:

Ace inside and out compared to a custom turbo manifold I had made. Maybe the guys at Ace are like a cold welding machine in their technique. It is possible.

[thatfilipinoguy]

I purchased my ACE 350 headers back in 2017. I have had them on my car since then and when I went to the track the welds on the flanges failed, causing one of the runners to pop out from the flange on my second to last run. I contacted CSG and we were able to get the manifold replaced under warranty with a new and improved version. The new version had thicker flanges and better welds! I still have it on my car now, and I think it is time for an updated tune to take advantage of the crack free manifold.

[itschris]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I didn’t really see the welds being that great. The used header I bought had cracked at the head flange and had been repaired. I inspected the other welds and found penetration to be lacking on most of them. I added my large, amateur welds to reinforce the pieces. I think the differences between the Ace header and other cheaper examples from eBay aren’t the welds, as much as, the quality of the metal used and the overall design. EBay metal seems thinner and seems like it is an alloy that isn’t a true 304, but a cheap 409 or something. EBay turbo manifolds are notoriously made out of the same thin-walled steel that headers are made out of instead of cast Schedule 10 stainless tubing.

Based on the welds I saw, my guess is they are using the same type of cheap, low-skill, cold welding technique demonstrated in the videos below. It can be done by machine or low-skill laborer. It leaves prettier welds with uniform size and shape with minimal heat/staining into the metal, so sanding/finishing may not be necessary. The process results in poorer penetration, which is why cracks happen along the fisheyes. It results in less fill of the joint too and more of a concave joint, especially when filler rod isn’t used, and while some concavity is typical of thick joints, it isn’t ideal on 16g, thin-walled pipe. I could be wrong, but I have my suspicions. I would love to be proven wrong.

Anecdotally I agree with this. Mine cracked, and the only other person I knew with Ace also had multiple cracks + repairs.

Headers shouldn't be a yearly maintenance item

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by itschris

Anecdotally I agree with this. Mine cracked, and the only other person I knew with Ace also had multiple cracks + repairs.

Headers shouldn't be a yearly maintenance item

Exactly. That's why people mostly advocate for JDL as the top headers.

A. They provide similar if better performance
B. The quality is absolutely top notch and they do not have common cracking issues
C. They are LOL cheaper - IDK why ACE thinks they can charge so much for an inferior product

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Exactly. That's why people mostly advocate for JDL as the top headers.

A. They provide similar if better performance
B. The quality is absolutely top notch and they do not have common cracking issues
C. They are LOL cheaper - IDK why ACE thinks they can charge so much for an inferior product

1 and 2 are not givens. 1 is simply too broad a statement; it's good, for sure, but to say 'better' is far too specific and may only be true in a handful of cases.
And though I haven't run a JDL header, I've had issues with everything else I've purchased from them (header-back for my '14 had cracking and other failures, front-pipe on my '17 wouldn't even bolt up to the stock header/overpipe - maybe it'd have bolted up to a JDL header? not sure; but despite numerous attempts to reach them I never heard a peep and ended up having it modified locally). Failure rates may still be lower than Ace (no idea, my Ace so far seems to be holding up just fine, but it doesn't get a lot of miles so who knows... then again, neither did the header-back) based on volume, but I'm not sure I'd buy from them again.
As always, YMMV.
Price is what it is. This car attracts a very cheap crowd, I'm surprised JDL is even able to sell enough.

[B T]

My ACE A350 header has twice melted my passenger side sway bar bushing.

[RedReplicant]

Originally Posted by B T

My ACE A350 header has twice melted my passenger side sway bar bushing.

I have/had one on both of my BRZs. One is ceramic coated, the other was not.

The non ceramic coated one melted the right side steering rack bellow and yellowed the paint everywhere around the overpipe.
Neither have ended up cracked, Cusco mounts on one car and Perrin on the other.
Both have been tracked, the one that melted the bellow was uncoated and had a supercharger on it.

Just some data.