GR86 upgrade stock brakes or wait for Performance Pack?

[Dylans47]

I'm very likely going to be buying a GR86 on launch, but the only thing making it very likely and not definitive is the stock brakes. I track about 5 times or so a year and like to canyon drive, so I would like a nice set of brakes. Unfortunately just some pads wont cut it with the stock 2 piston front and 1 piston rear setup.

Reading around the forum, it sounds like AP Racing or CSG's Brembo GT kits are great options for someone looking for an upgrade in the current toyota 86 platform. But, those kits run $2000 and don't upgrade the rear calipers. The current performance pack for the BRZ runs $1200, and include wheels and dampers (which to be fair I would be replacing anyways, but still).

I haven't been able to find a post discussing brake bias alterations when only adding a BBK in the front, leaving the rear calipers stock. Perhaps I still have a lot to learn, but would that not alter the brake bias?

So I guess my questions come down to brake bias confusion and value considerations.

Thanks everyone.

[churchx]

Fronts do most of braking. In most cases it's sufficient to go with fronts-only BBK upgrade, if it retains brake bias unchanged. In Essex APR kits case you get real race higher end kit for where it matters, instead of compromising to get within cost. Often BBK upgrade for both ends is done for visual/looks reason, then actual need. But there is problem, that for car that is less track focused and mostly daily driven, there are also drawbacks for race oriented brake setup (eg. it may see problems seeing winter road salt). With dual-used and with limited planned trackday count i'd probably stay with stock brakes + better fluid + swap to race pads for trackdays. Many track on stock brakes, it mostly works ok, if you don't go for very grippy tires/FI/enhanced aero downforce. As for PP .. it's nice competitive offering if included in new car options, but unreasonably expensive, if one sources from parts as later upgrade. As for if worth to hold off purchase for only until PP gets offered for GR86 .. don't know. Everybody may choose differently.

[Dylans47]

Originally Posted by churchx

As for PP .. it's nice competitive offering if included in new car options, but unreasonably expensive, if one sources from parts as later upgrade...

Thanks church, I figure even though the essex and csg kits only replace the front caliper, they'll likely perform better than the PP kit. Although, why do you say the PP is unreasonably expensive? I found it's only 1200 and includes the front/rear calipers, dampers, and wheels. Seems like one of the best bargain options, next to the Z51 package for corvettes. The essex and csg kits run $2000.

[Dylans47]

Does anyone have info on brake bias? I'm surprised I couldn't find any info on this in the forums, but I probably didn't dig deep enough.
@CSG Mike where you at?

[soundman98]

the oem, or the essex/ap racing is likely going to be a better option than oem pp, simply for the pre-existing pad options.

pp is pandoras box right now. anything and nothing is possible. might never do it, or might do it in a new version that requires different pads...

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Dylans47

Thanks church, I figure even though the essex and csg kits only replace the front caliper, they'll likely perform better than the PP kit. Although, why do you say the PP is unreasonably expensive? I found it's only 1200 and includes the front/rear calipers, dampers, and wheels. Seems like one of the best bargain options, next to the Z51 package for corvettes. The essex and csg kits run $2000.

BBK doesn't just replace the caliper, it replaces the rotor with a 2 piece. That is a weak point with the PP brakes, still one piece rotor. You can buy a 2 piece through girodisc.

As churchx already said, rear isn't needed, you are not putting enough energy into them since most of the braking force goes through the front.


Bias info along with other data here.
https://www.pointmeby.com/2016/09/24...z-frs-gt86-86/

[86league]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Bias info along with other data here.
https://www.pointmeby.com/2016/09/24...z-frs-gt86-86/

I think those numbers are wrong. His piston sizes don't match measured values.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...7&postcount=17

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Dylans47

Does anyone have info on brake bias? I'm surprised I couldn't find any info on this in the forums, but I probably didn't dig deep enough.
@CSG Mike where you at?

AP Sprint and CSG Brembo kits retain stock bias. They're designed around the stock rear caliper.

If you want a rear BBK anyways, you can use any Brembo GT rear kit, although the sensible option would be the smallest Brembo GT rear.

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

BBK doesn't just replace the caliper, it replaces the rotor with a 2 piece. That is a weak point with the PP brakes, still one piece rotor. You can buy a 2 piece through girodisc.

As churchx already said, rear isn't needed, you are not putting enough energy into them since most of the braking force goes through the front.


Bias info along with other data here.
https://www.pointmeby.com/2016/09/24...z-frs-gt86-86/

1 piece is not a weak point. The CSG Brembo kits are specifically designed to use 1 piece discs to:

- increase thermal capacity
- increase service life
- keep cost down
- make replacements easy

[Dylans47]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

AP Sprint and CSG Brembo kits retain stock bias. They're designed around the stock rear caliper.

If you want a rear BBK anyways, you can use any Brembo GT rear kit, although the sensible option would be the smallest Brembo GT rear.

Gotcha. Although, if I add a rear kit, I assume I would be removing my parking brake function? And this would probably be more for style than function, ultimately. I'm not someone going for track records, just more thermal capacity for tracking and braking power gains over stock.

Also, is the braking power actually any better on the CSG or AP kits compared to PP? Am I wrong in assuming the thermal capacity on the Brembo GT should be the same as the PP? Of course the AP Sprint kit looks like it would increase thermal capacity.

I only ask because the Brembo GT kit's design seems pretty much identical to the PP kit, save the 36mm leading piston on the GT and 40mm on the PP.

Edit: Looking more closely, the Brembo GT's design is definitely superior to the PP, owning to the bolt direction alone. I forgot if that's considered parallel or perpendicular bolt design.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

1 piece is not a weak point. The CSG Brembo kits are specifically designed to use 1 piece discs to:

- increase thermal capacity
- increase service life
- keep cost down
- make replacements easy

I will take better heat sheading and the lighter weight.

[CSG Mike]

Braking power is determined by tires, not brake calipers. To a lesser degree, by pads, by making sure you're maximizing brake utilization.

Thermal Capacity of the CSG/GT/BM4 are all greater than the PP. CSG Brembo calipers are all more modern and larger than the PP calipers; PP wheels will NOT clear CSG Brembo setups.

[EAGLE5]

5 times a year? Not setting records? Maybe stock is good enough with the right pads and high temp fluid. Have you tried this solution yet? Much cheaper though perhaps much less interesting than a BBK.

[Dylans47]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

5 times a year? Not setting records? Maybe stock is good enough with the right pads and high temp fluid. Have you tried this solution yet? Much cheaper though perhaps much less interesting than a BBK.

Yes, I have tried this. I still deal with brake fade especially in SoCal weather.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

5 times a year? Not setting records? Maybe stock is good enough with the right pads and high temp fluid. Have you tried this solution yet? Much cheaper though perhaps much less interesting than a BBK.

This. Pads, fluid, maybe front cooling ducts.