2016 BRZ vs 2017 BRZ

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by deejaylew

this lines up with what we were told to expect from earlier videos so it's definitely interesting. Thanks for the data!

Yup Moto-san was right on the money with his mention on my earlier interview with him in June in the Yellow car.

it's just about 10-15 whp above the old car.

[why?]

Originally Posted by deejaylew

this lines up with what we were told to expect from earlier videos so it's definitely interesting. Thanks for the data!

yea but no one believed it at the time.

[SuperDave]

Originally Posted by why?

yea but no one believed it at the time.

it just shows how dumb people are, i call it the fox news effect. people with credibility give out information and people doubt it, and think they know better with their bs based speculation.

[deejaylew]

Originally Posted by SuperDave

it just shows how dumb people are, i call it the fox news effect. people with credibility give out information and people doubt it, and think they know better with their bs based speculation.

Of course because the majority on this forum in the last month know better than the subaru engineers OR they think that by trashing the 17 their past purchases become more validated.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

I was waiting to hear your impressions.

I know it has been a while since you drove an earlier model, but do you feel the compliance of the suspension is at level where the car has lost something, or become to BMW-ish?

I am going to combine all my questions into one:

Even if the 2017 BRZ/FRS is a better car than previous years, do you think the '17 is the better 86 than previous MY BRZ/FRS strictly from a driving experience perspective.

I know a lot to ask from just a test drive, but thats where we are at right now.


An example. I believe the 15 MY was both a better car than the 13'-14' cars, but also a better 86 all around. Or, the 981 Cayman is a better car (hands down) than the 987 Cayman. But the 987 is the better CAYMAN all around, the refinement of the 981 allowed some of the true Cayman character to get lost in the process of building a better car.

Hope that makes sense.

Yes that makes sense. I don't think the feel of the car has become significantly more isolated than what I remember from my earlier drives, but the time period is so long between driving the 2 that I can't be absolutely certain. It definitely has a "silky" quality to it though - a grown-up feeling that someone coming from an Acura Integra say might find a bit isolating.


In some ways the 17 BRZ does not feel as connected as my rude and crude 1st gen Tiburon (35k miles on the OD) with its hydraulic steering and stiff suspension that tracks everything. The Tib is lighter at 2560 lbs, which probably helps with that connectedness. Mind you it's a lot more fatiguing to drive long distances in that than it would be in the BRZ, and of course it doesn't handle as well when you push it.

I drove two other cars today that may give you some useful perspective: the new Golf R, and the Fiat 124 (both Abarth and non-Abarth versions). In the BRZ I definitely felt more connected to the driving experience than in the R, but not quite as much as in the 124, which did a better job of communicating what the tires were doing and the nature of the road I was driving on, and seemed a little more "lively" through the wheel. Some of that may be due to the 124's lighter weight. The R by contrast makes a great GT for cruising and its acceleration is amazing, but it's not as much fun to drive , and pushed it understeers, where it was easy to get the 124 to slide at the rear.
TL;DR: everything has tradeoffs at this price point.

[Sport-Tech]

One other point to add to my '13 FRS vs. '17 BRZ comparison: love the new wheel, it felt great. After driving the '17 I sat in a '16 and the perforated leather wheel did not feel as nice and seemed a bit too large. The new wheel buttons don't look as cheap IRL as they do in photos.

Drove a '17 86 today as well, for all of 5 minutes - could not feel any difference in suspension settings vs. the '17 BRZ (are there any left?). New seat upholstery is a huge improvement, and the faux-Alcantara on the dash etc. looked fine. The 7" display is a lot more visible than the tiny 6.1" on the Canadian BRZ. Seeing its new front clip in person did very little to improve my opinion of it though.

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by deejaylew

Of course because the majority on this forum in the last month know better than the subaru engineers OR they think that by trashing the 17 their past purchases become more validated.

Just goes to show how passionate everyone is about their cars!

//Zaku looks on the bright side always

I guess my next thing is to do a track day and let a pro/semi pro driver drive it around the same course I did and see how many seconds I've lost to him : )

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by Zaku

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...36#post2775136


Dyno Data

2017 177-178whp avg

2016 164whp

2013 160whp

As explained in the thread this is just a guide it's not technical there's a lot of factors to a Dyno but this is the results of the testing so far.

Thanks a ton for this!

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by deejaylew

Of course because the majority on this forum in the last month know better than the subaru engineers OR they think that by trashing the 17 their past purchases become more validated.

I don't think there were too many negative reviews about the performance improvements. In fact, there were many people waiting for the first drive reviews. Although the new car is stronger in numbers, in reality this doesn't show much. I haven't read a single review justifying the 15-20 whp difference. Personally, I made criticism on specific facts like for example that the new car is much heavier. Too bad they didn't gave us this engine in a much lighter car. It looks they decided internally that this wouldn't sell and followed the other direction (i.e. more sound-deadening material, more gadgets, more comfort, ...).

[deejaylew]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I don't think there were too many negative reviews about the performance improvements. In fact, there were many people waiting for the first drive reviews. Although the new car is stronger in numbers, in reality this doesn't show much. I haven't read a single review justifying the 15-20 whp difference. Personally, I made criticism on specific facts like for example that the new car is much heavier. Too bad they didn't gave us this engine in a much lighter car. It looks they decided internally that this wouldn't sell and followed the other direction (i.e. more sound-deadening material, more gadgets, more comfort, ...).

Yeah it's too bad huh. much heavier.

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by deejaylew

Yeah it's too bad huh. much heavier.

It's not that much heavier guys lol it's not like they added 1000 lbs lol,

Also in a way isn't this nice you get both worlds performance and comfort

At least that's the goal of say things like the Sach Dampers and the Brembo

If you want a hard core version it's provided it's just not sold here in the NA region.

Lastly don't forget they benchmark Porsche for their example so they were shooting for Cayman handling and it's comfort.


Subaru quality isn't exactly Porsche but at least they're trying lol

[deejaylew]

Originally Posted by Zaku

It's not that much heavier guys lol it's not like they added 1000 lbs lol,

Also in a way isn't this nice you get both worlds performance and comfort

At least that's the goal of say things like the Sach Dampers and the Brembo

If you want a hard core version it's provided it's just not sold here in the NA region.

Lastly don't forget they benchmark Porsche for their example so they were shooting for Cayman handling and it's comfort.


Subaru quality isn't exactly Porsche but at least they're trying lol

I was joking. It's clearly not much heavier, just tired of giving serious responses to ridiculous statements.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Zaku

It's not that much heavier guys lol it's not like they added 1000 lbs lol,

Also in a way isn't this nice you get both worlds performance and comfort

At least that's the goal of say things like the Sach Dampers and the Brembo

If you want a hard core version it's provided it's just not sold here in the NA region.

Lastly don't forget they benchmark Porsche for their example so they were shooting for Cayman handling and it's comfort.


Subaru quality isn't exactly Porsche but at least they're trying lol

Keep in mind this is a forum where guys swear there is a huge difference in handling and acceleration when they save 4 pounds by putting in a light weight battery or take the spare out of the trunk. The butt dyno is a powerful influence in perception for some!

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Keep in mind this is a forum where guys swear there is a huge difference in handling and acceleration when they save 4 pounds by putting in a light weight battery or take the spare out of the trunk. The butt dyno is a powerful influence in perception for some!

For me, weight reduction is an cumulative process. For sure 4 pounds doesn't make any noticeable difference, but if you have let's say a car which is 70 lbs heavier and a car that could be 70 lbs lighter, then you have a considerable difference. If it's a sports car ...