2022 Lotus Emira, the last ICE for the brand.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

Nobody cares about weight expect some die hard enthusiast. It's almost as unimportant as steering feel or handling (except the later two are still mentioned by auto journalists).

The Miata is successful because of it's heritage and iconic status. I'm sure more than 90% of them are bought for being a cheap convertible and not for being a superb lightweight sports car. Same as 90% of Twins are bought as cheap coupes and not incredibly fun sports cars.



Let's not get started with ultra-low-volume sports cars. Plus most people look for some form of head covering for their street cars. And no, a baseball cap doesn't count.

Edit: nevermind about the roof comment (although plenty of those ultra-low-volume sports cars are track oriented and don't have roofs), as it does have a coupe version.

Lotus buyers care about weight. A heavy Lotus is just a poorly made car in a sea of better competitors. Brand differentiation matters when a company is making low-volume, boutique, sports cars with borrowed drivetrains like the Lotus or Jannarelly that uses a 3.5l VQ from Nissan.

Ask yourself why anyone would buy an Evora or this over a Cayman or 911 except to spend more and get less to only be different.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Kiske

When you can easily get one and drive it in the states as a production car, I'll add it. It can be done- yes but, not in a mass market for 100k or less.

Adding a car that has less than 500 examples built since 2016 and and less than 10 over 5 years in the states also doesn't appeal to my list. I'd soon add the Ariel Atom before the Design 1 based off production.

Every company starts somewhere. The car was slated to cost $60k before demand soared and prices ballooned to 911 prices. My point is that the Jannarelly is more of an example of what could be done if a manufacturer wanted to produce a lightweight car.

Lotus tried appealing to 911 buyers with a useless 2+2 and bloated weight in the Evora, while failing to meet the same standard of a 911 by a far margin. If they want to be boutique then be boutique.

It doesn’t matter if their cars are normal or “light” relative to the market if there are still competitors that offer better value.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

You forgot one.

Not really a fair comparison. Low volume manufacturers are exempt from a lot of NHTSA standards for safety. I think the qty they are limited to is under 500/yr or something.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

The Miata probably loses money and the sales aren't great.

I think Alfa made the best effort at an Elise replacement with the 4C, but no manual trans is a dealbreaker for me. It's kind of a shame because DCTs are heavy, they probably could shed 50lbs with a manual trans. I'm not a fan of turbos but engines can be modified so that aspect was not a dealbreaker.

Miata makes a profit. Their global sales aren’t huge, but it certainly adds a small profit to the company. It also is good for the brand to have a diverse and interesting lineup.

https://carbuzz.com/news/the-miata-j...bal-production

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/the-mia...sales-in-2020/

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Not really a fair comparison. Low volume manufacturers are exempt from a lot of NHTSA standards for safety. I think the qty they are limited to is under 500/yr or something.

Have you seen the production numbers for Lotus?

https://raycee1234.blogspot.com/2015...-2014.html?m=1

If Miata can make a crash safe car at 2200lbs then Lotus probably could do better for twice the money.

[PorscheUnlimited16]

Already got a deposit down at my local lotus dealer. Surprisingly I was the first person and only one so far..

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by PorscheUnlimited16

Already got a deposit down at my local lotus dealer. Surprisingly I was the first person and only one so far..

That’s cool. With less than 200 sales in the US in each of the last few years, the odds of a rebadged Evora garnering much hype is slim. There are 38 dealers in the US, so that is 5 cars sold per dealership, so around one sale every two months. The odds of you being the first or only one isn’t too surprising.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Have you seen the production numbers for Lotus?

https://raycee1234.blogspot.com/2015...-2014.html?m=1

If Miata can make a crash safe car at 2200lbs then Lotus probably could do better for twice the money.

Fair enough. I just don't think "simplify and add lightness" is their vision anymore and I bet they would like to sell more cars then the low volume limit. Throwing the Jannarelly in there just isn't fair though.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Fair enough. I just don't think "simplify and add lightness" is their vision anymore and I bet they would like to sell more cars then the low volume limit. Throwing the Jannarelly in there just isn't fair though.

I do think they have lofty goals. Maybe soon they will be producing their own engines, but I think that is unlikely. I think they are transitioning at the perfect time—during the EV revolution—which is why they showcased the Evija. Lots of manufacturers are scrambling to build and partner for EV powertrains and batteries. Lotus won’t be so unique in acquiring a powertrain. They can differentiate themselves with packaging and lightness still, which is their plan and what they wanted to showcase with the Evija. Hopefully, they can deliver, or they could disappear entirely from a failed effort.

The Jannarelly is just an example. The Exige is a fine example too. I guess the question is what does the Evora gain over the Exige for the extra 700lbs in weight? I’ll have to see a comparison between the Cayman and this new Emira. While the 2.5T is a liter down on the Emira, the engine is made in house by Porsche to be a performance engine, and it is highly underrated. Plus, Porsche quality. I just don’t this Lotus will beat Porsche at their own game.

[PorscheUnlimited16]

They are no where near the quality of Porsche or have the funds for the R&D. My buddy owned the evora 400 and it was plagued with quality control issues and dealer network and servicing was very very poor. But in the name of being different and having the latest and greatest of what a boutique brand can give. Order up.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Kiske

3100lbs in 2022 isn't a bad place to be. -If they deliver on their quality improvements. Definitely a, "Don't buy the first model year," type of car.

Miata RF Grand Touring 2500lbs
BRZ/GR86 2800lbs
Civic Type-R 3100lbs
Golf GTI-R 3100lbs
Emira 3100lbs
Cayman GTS 3200lbs
400z 3300lbs
A91 Supra/Z4 3400lbs
C8 Corvette 3400lbs
992 Carrera 4S 3500lbs
M2 Competition 3600lbs
Giulia Quadrifoglio 3800lbs
M3 Competition 3900lbs
RC-F Track Edition 3800lbs
Camaro ZL1 1LE 3900lbs
GT-R NISMO 3900lbs
Mustang GT500 4200lbs
M1A2C Abrams 147,200lbs

.

[Veloist]

I’d sell my GR Supra for one if the purchase price is reasonable. I’d say the sweet spot is $90k +/- $7,500 for the V6. But if it starts getting over $110-$115k I’d lose interest also because that’s base Carrera S and almost Cayman GT4 territory. Even a nicely-equipped Cayman GTS.

On paper it seems like a fantastic driver’s car. I don’t think the near future will be able to produce cars like this anymore.

So far I like everything about it just gotta wait for numbers and actual driving experience.

[Veloist]

I contacted a Lotus dealership and had a pleasant conversation with a representative who was very professional.

Looks like definitive pricing will be announced September, and the first editions will only be in the V6 Manual. Demo car is expected in November and orders would open in December.

I felt comfortable enough to leave a deposit and apparently was the 10th person to secure one and he mentioned that his store would be getting 25.

So I’ll see. I’m excited to drive the demo car but if the car doesn’t drive well then I’ll take my deposit back haha.

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Lotus buyers care about weight.

This. The traditional Lotus buyer, and 100% of the Elise and Exige buyers, are all about having a lightweight, track focused car. The luxury GT coupe buyers who still want some trackability looked to the Evora, which this Emira looks heavily based on under the skin (despite whatever marketing PR is put around).

Ask yourself why anyone would buy an Evora or this over a Cayman or 911 except to spend more and get less to only be different.

One thing the Emira does have is mini supercar looks. It does look fantastic and far more expensive than it is. Someone who wants a McLaren but can't afford it might well give the Emira a look - such a person might find the Cayman or 911 a bit ho-hum looking in comparison.

But yeah, it is really not an Elise or Exige replacement - not at all - and it seems to simply be the Evora replacement. The Evora always struggled against the Cayman or 911. We'll have to wait and see whether the Emira's styling can sway some buyers from Team Porsche over to Team Lotus. Much will depend on the quality and refinement. At 1400kg it has no excuses not to have Cayman level fit, finish and ride refinement.