Ford Fiesta ST Beats Toyota GT86 on the Track in EVO Test

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

I'm kind of cross-shopping these two right now...

Haven't driven the Fiesta ST yet, but I did drive the FRS last week for the first time.

I'm interested in the Fiesta because it looks fun to drive and isn't overpowered for a FWD car, plus light as heck like the Abarth and other small hot hatches. Its also practical and possibly slightly faster in a straight line than the twins (and probably going to be easily modded due to the turbo motor of course).

I was disappointed with the power of the FRS when I drove it, but everything else I loved. I need to see the Fiesta in person and test drive it, but the $3000 difference might be a problem for me I don't know yet for sure.

I have also been looking at the Abarth, MX-5 Club, Sonic RS, even used Mazdaspeed 3's... So I'm open to anything, but the Fiesta and BRZ/FRS seem to be my top 2 right now until I see the Fiesta in person.

*waves* Hi Kosta.

You already know my vote, but what is it that you find underwhelming about the power? The delivery? Where it's delivered? Coming from a lightly modified WRX I wasn't necessarily impressed and I'm still not, but I've realized it's not that important to me. Will I be adding FI? Probably down the line sometime, but the car is fun without it.

Will this car be your all-in-one car, your commuter, your only whip, your fun ride? If you can make a distinction of what kind of car you need, I think you'll find your answer.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

I'm kind of cross-shopping these two right now...

Haven't driven the Fiesta ST yet, but I did drive the FRS last week for the first time.

I'm interested in the Fiesta because it looks fun to drive and isn't overpowered for a FWD car, plus light as heck like the Abarth and other small hot hatches. Its also practical and possibly slightly faster in a straight line than the twins (and probably going to be easily modded due to the turbo motor of course).

I was disappointed with the power of the FRS when I drove it, but everything else I loved. I need to see the Fiesta in person and test drive it, but the $3000 difference might be a problem for me I don't know yet for sure.

I have also been looking at the Abarth, MX-5 Club, Sonic RS, even used Mazdaspeed 3's... So I'm open to anything, but the Fiesta and BRZ/FRS seem to be my top 2 right now until I see the Fiesta in person.

I'm in much the same position as you on this. One other plus for the Fiesta ST based on the videos I have seen (and my FR-S test drives) is that the ST has a much sweeter engine note in-cabin, not nearly so harsh.
Another car you may wish to add to your list is the new GTI coming next year - getting great reviews but may not have quite the enthusiast's edge as the other 2. The ST has been getting raves, most recently on Top Gear.

[kuhlka]

This review is like comparing two runners. Usain Bolt wearing lead shoes and a fat guy on a bicycle.

OMG FAT GUY IS FASTER!

God is in the details, people.

[AE86_Mikko]

One thing id say about this topic is that speed is one thing, but reliability/longevity is another one id look at...

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by AE86_Mikko

One thing id say about this topic is that speed is one thing, but reliability/longevity is another one id look at...

Both Ford (moreso recently) and Toyota have very long-lasting cars as of right now. And it pains me to say it, but at its core, this car is a Subaru. Not saying that Subaru's record isn't stellar (it is) but when it comes to this car, I do worry that we may be let down in the long run.

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Both Ford (moreso recently) and Toyota have very long-lasting cars as of right now. And it pains me to say it, but at its core, this car is a Subaru. Not saying that Subaru's record isn't stellar (it is) but when it comes to this car, I do worry that we may be let down in the long run.

How so? Zero engine issues with my 05 STI and I've driven the hell out of it in all conditions. The only issues I've had worth mentioning are a minor radiator leak, a rear axle bearing went out, and the rear left wheel bearing started to go out. This is a first run new engine. If you're worried about it, get the 7 year 100,000 mile warranty for peace of mind and don't throw on a bunch of power upgrades (which are the most frequent reason for engine failure.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

How so? Zero engine issues with my 05 STI and I've driven the hell out of it in all conditions. The only issues I've had worth mentioning are a minor radiator leak, a rear axle bearing went out, and the rear left wheel bearing started to go out. This is a first run new engine. If you're worried about it, get the 7 year 100,000 mile warranty for peace of mind and don't throw on a bunch of power upgrades (which are the most frequent reason for engine failure.

Again, I acknowledge that Subaru has a good record on most of its cars. Never doubted.

But with the twins....the DI failure on the harder driven cars (some w/o power adders), the possibility of failure with the HPFP (nobody has driven it long enough yet to make me feel more secure, IMO), and the cam issue (which fortunately seems to have been fixed), I don't think I am the only one on this forum who occasionally worries that we may not have this car as long as we would like.

And, yes, I actually did get the extended warranty.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Again, I acknowledge that Subaru has a good record on most of its cars. Never doubted.

But with the twins....the DI failure on the harder driven cars (some w/o power adders), the possibility of failure with the HPFP (nobody has driven it long enough yet to make me feel more secure, IMO), and the cam issue (which fortunately seems to have been fixed), I don't think I am the only one on this forum who occasionally worries that we may not have this car as long as we would like.

And, yes, I actually did get the extended warranty.

So 3 virtual non-issues are issues? The almost seems like trolling.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

So 3 virtual non-issues are issues? The almost seems like trolling.

Think of it what you will, these concerns are borne out of genuine concern. I sincerely hope I am wrong.

[WithNolock]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

So 3 virtual non-issues are issues? The almost seems like trolling.

I'm sure that those who have had the DI issue would argue that point. I don't think the twins are going to win any awards for initial or long term quality. Not that any brand new platform ever does but I think the consensus is that this car has more quality problems than it should.

[tennisfreak]

Base Fiesta ST price (configured on Ford website) is: $22195.

That makes about ~$3k price difference from base FR-S.

I'd still pick the FR-S every time. Sexier, RWD, more mod potential.

ST while looks fun and quick is just ugly as hell (to me).

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by WithNolock

I'm sure that those who have had the DI issue would argue that point. I don't think the twins are going to win any awards for initial or long term quality. Not that any brand new platform ever does but I think the consensus is that this car has more quality problems than it should.

I'm not so sure about how many quality problems it should or should't have. Remember, we're talking about model year 1 sports cars (not sporty cars) that are focused on low weight, moderate power. Lightweight cars that are driven hard tend to suffer from more initial quality issues. My comparison cars would be 1989/90 Miata (1st gen), 1992/3 RX-7 (3rd gen), 1984/85 MR2 (1st gen), 1996 Elise (1st gen) all had various quality issues in their first design/re-design iterations. Remember, we're not talking Camrys here.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

I'm not so sure about how many quality problems it should or should't have. Remember, we're talking about model year 1 sports cars (not sporty cars) that are focused on low weight, moderate power. Lightweight cars that are driven hard tend to suffer from more initial quality issues. My comparison cars would be 1989/90 Miata (1st gen), 1992/3 RX-7 (3rd gen), 1984/85 MR2 (1st gen), 1996 Elise (1st gen) all had various quality issues in their first design/re-design iterations. Remember, we're not talking Camrys here.

I think you are reading too much into our posts. I expect a few small design flaws the first year (or even two) of production. Same as with any new launch, but nothing that would lemon the car, however.

To make a specific example, the DI seal failure that is associated with the cars that have seen more agressive use--we have no proof that this is just something that is only going to happen with those who take the car to its limits. What if they are just accelerating the issue, and my seals give out at 75k miles of "normal" driving instead of 15k of aggressive driving? Even if this is a brand-new platform, I shouldn't have to worry about a possible long-term problem like that.

On the note of seals, you left out an important one in your list of quality issues: The RX-8. Good car until you got to about 75-100k miles, then the seals gave out and you had a $5000 repair on your hands. I, for one, hope that our car doesn't go this route.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

I think you are reading too much into our posts. I expect a few small design flaws the first year (or even two) of production. Same as with any new launch, but nothing that would lemon the car, however.

To make a specific example, the DI seal failure that is associated with the cars that have seen more agressive use--we have no proof that this is just something that is only going to happen with those who take the car to its limits. What if they are just accelerating the issue, and my seals give out at 75k miles of "normal" driving instead of 15k of aggressive driving? Even if this is a brand-new platform, I shouldn't have to worry about a possible long-term problem like that.

On the note of seals, you left out an important one in your list of quality issues: The RX-8. Good car until you got to about 75-100k miles, then the seals gave out and you had a $5000 repair on your hands. I, for one, hope that our car doesn't go this route.

It's a difference of expectation. I do expect more than just a couple of issues with a model year 1 specialty car that weighs significantly less than it's competitors.

The DI issue has been reported mostly by those who have tracked the car daily. Yes they may be accelerating the issue, but any car driven extremely hard is bound to have some type of failure. I agree that it is a situation to monitor closely.

100k miles is all that I'm expecting out if this car if it's going regularly to the track. If it requires a major repair after 100k of track visits and DD. I chalk that up to the way it's being used and maintained over some fatal flaw in the cars design. Perfect cars are rare and that's why they're special. Once again, it's an '86, not a Camry, Civic, or even a Fiesta (all passenger cars I'd expect to hit 150k with some care).