Front camber adjustment.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Wepeel

Reducing the Included Angle actually has a positive affect - Included Angle (SAI minus wheel camber) results in losing camber through steering (it opposes the gain in camber due to caster), so a smaller Included Angle isn't a bad thing - the change isn't huge (probably small enough to ignore), but technically it exists.

Moving the strut tops inward does have the effect of raising the roll center, which could be desirable or not, depending. If you're lowered a lot it might be preferable to raise the roll center back up.

This is an excellent point most don't think about. Almost always better to run more camber at the hub rather than the top mount. Just do it safely. And yes like you said if you're lowered a lot it's more of a tradeoff since with camber plates you can raise the roll center.

- Andy

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Figo

I am thinking to get Hotchkis camber plates and swift lowing spring. lol. And maybe a set of Cusco LCA.

I read about these MC-something or other brand plates that look pretty promising for about the same cost. The also don't add height after install. Worth looking into.

Originally Posted by Wepeel

Reducing the Included Angle actually has a positive affect - Included Angle (SAI minus wheel camber) results in losing camber through steering (it opposes the gain in camber due to caster), so a smaller Included Angle isn't a bad thing - the change isn't huge (probably small enough to ignore), but technically it exists.

Moving the strut tops inward does have the effect of raising the roll center, which could be desirable or not, depending. If you're lowered a lot it might be preferable to raise the roll center back up.

I was thinking more about the amount of camber gain (probably negligable to begin with) u der compression. Less camber gain under compression with bolts vs plates, no?

Originally Posted by Dezoris

I am with Mike @CSG Mike on this. I ran the crash bolt on the top of the strut, difficult to align and had to re-align after several autox. The Whitle bolt (re-packaged SPC) was more of the same, had to re-align 4x since install. Mind you this was from harder driving.

Using these bolts on both top and bottom is not something I would ever consider, and if you did you absolutely want to use thread lock on both bolts and check TQ monthly.

Lastly those SPC bolts IMO are low quality hardware. There is no excuse for $30 bolts completely turning to rust after 6 months. Here is a picture of stock bolt compared. Whenever I see an SPC suspension piece I think wow that's affordable, but chances are this is the fine print.

That was what I was trying to avoid by not getting the crash bolts. Tho the upper bolts I got from spc were zinc coated like the OE bolts, so corrosion is not going to be as bad. Although the lower bolts I got were not zinc coated. Not sure when SPC started making coated bolts.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

If you draw a free body diagram of the forces of an impact with a berm or pothole under hard cornering, you'll see that it's going to be almost completely a vertical load that is initially absorbed by the suspension.

Damn, it's like I'm back in high school agian. Ironically, its a class that I slept through, and had a teacher that always threw markers at me. He also was the teacher for 3 other classes I had... and now codes for Blizzard.

/randomblurb

Yes that true, but the shock of sudden compression of the suspension still has to be transferred through the bolts to the struts. As @Dezoris and my friend with the WRX experienced with their camber bolts with just auto-x And tossing around some bends. Damped or not it still enough to make them shift and change the alignment.

[diss7]

Is there a safe way of doing this?

I already have the whiteline camber bolts, do they for example, make a smaller bolt to use in the bottom?

Cheers

[CSG Mike]

I have no idea what brand bolts we have (they were given to us by West End Alignment), but they haven't slipped.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by diss7

Is there a safe way of doing this?

I already have the whiteline camber bolts, do they for example, make a smaller bolt to use in the bottom?

Cheers

You can use the bolts on the bottom according to instructions BUT again you have to use great caution as the bottom bolt is considered more critical to load bearing. If you do it, check often and also thread lock bolts before install.

[diss7]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

You can use the bolts on the bottom according to instructions BUT again you have to use great caution as the bottom bolt is considered more critical to load bearing. If you do it, check often and also thread lock bolts before install.

Out instructions showed this also, but I believe they were incorrect/generic; as it would only fit on the top holes on the 86.

I wasn't the one who put my bolts in, I was putting something else in, but that's what my buddy said who was working on the front.

[solidONE]

I've been driving my car pretty hard around some bumpy bends and the SPC bolts with supplied locking nuts have not shifted either. I've also done 3 track days with the upper bolts only and the bolts have stayed in the same exact position. No thread lock/ loctite used. Time will tell how it will hold up when doubled up. Pretty content with the $50-60 spent for more than -2* of camber tho. Will post photos and vid later.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by diss7

Out instructions showed this also, but I believe they were incorrect/generic; as it would only fit on the top holes on the 86.

I wasn't the one who put my bolts in, I was putting something else in, but that's what my buddy said who was working on the front.

Read the earlier posts. Top bolt 16mm, bottom 14mm.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I've been driving my car pretty hard around some bumpy bends and the SPC bolts with supplied locking nuts have not shifted either. I've also done 3 track days with the upper bolts only and the bolts have stayed in the same exact position. No thread lock/ loctite used. Time will tell how it will hold up when doubled up. Pretty content with the $50-60 spent for more than -2* of camber tho. Will post photos and vid later.

Can verify that the car survived me driving it as well...

[diss7]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Read the earlier posts. Top bolt 16mm, bottom 14mm.

I did read the earlier posts, hence my original question.

Is there a preferred bolt solution (whiteline or similar ) to use in the bottom hole, safely.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by diss7

I did read the earlier posts, hence my original question.

Is there a preferred bolt solution (whiteline or similar ) to use in the bottom hole, safely.

If you're driving the car, you really should just get camber plates and a single camber bolt...

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

I am with Mike @CSG Mike on this. I ran the crash bolt on the top of the strut, difficult to align and had to re-align after several autox. The Whitle bolt (re-packaged SPC) was more of the same, had to re-align 4x since install. Mind you this was from harder driving.

Using these bolts on both top and bottom is not something I would ever consider, and if you did you absolutely want to use thread lock on both bolts and check TQ monthly.

Lastly those SPC bolts IMO are low quality hardware. There is no excuse for $30 bolts completely turning to rust after 6 months. Here is a picture of stock bolt compared. Whenever I see an SPC suspension piece I think wow that's affordable, but chances are this is the fine print.

Agreed. I had SPC camber bolts on my old G35C and they were so rusted after about 8 months that they seized (had to be torched off when I went back to stock). Brutal.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by diss7

I did read the earlier posts, hence my original question.

Is there a preferred bolt solution (whiteline or similar ) to use in the bottom hole, safely.

Use the 16mm upper camber bolt like the one in my picture in the next post coupled with camber plates if you need maximum camber adjustment. Zinc coated for anti-corrosion. Make sure you get the silver ones not black ones if you don't want them to turn brown with rust like in @Dezoris photo.

[solidONE]

Clearance of the 245's with 5mm spacers installed. Note the upper SPC camber bolt is zinc coated and silver in color.


Spacers, hubcentric:


This is the type of road I typically run on when not commuting.
http://s174.photobucket.com/user/sol...43611.mp4.html
this is with the stock tires and both camber bolts installed. TC on. A lot of intervention as the tires were breaking away easily with the swift springs installed. Kicked up a pice of asphalt bigger than my fist at about 0:19 into the "lap".