Turbo Twin versus Mclaren Mp4-12c

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Ok that makes more sense then. It's because you're a honda boy... It's funny how the only people that seem to be "Realistic" about the twins are people who drive other cars...lol

I can find many examples of cars making 400bhp for tens of thousands of miles. How is that not reliable??? That's only about 340 to the wheels. Hell that's almost doable with 93...

Jaden

Regardless of @CSG Mike being a Honda fanboy or not (not claiming you are, just for arguments sake), I certainly wouldn't want to be driving my FRS with nearly double the power output of stock on stock internals for any length of time. Pushing the HP and TQ numbers up by around 100 each? Sure. But asking double of what the stock numbers are? Not a chance. I wanted a supercharger for my car, but realistically, I don't trust it to be a reliable DD

EDIT: Also, @Jaden if you wanted more power out of a car, you should be looking elsewhere. This platform isn't about number crunching.

[CSG Mike]

The current Mustang is pretty dang hard to beat for bang for the buck... especially that Ecoboost and it actually handles pretty decent too..

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

And how many of those tens of thousands of miles are actually at an output level north of 200hp? I bet not many.

340whp is NOT reliable on this platform. If you think otherwise, you're either inexperienced, uneducated, or perhaps, both.

Look at how many cars/projects are abandoned after a failure. How many owners have just disappeared with no updates to their build threads?

I've put around 80,000 miles on this platform. How many have you?

40k

[humdizzle]

you can make anything fast with enough money. I could buy a beat up fox body 5.0 stang, throw a few thousand in the engine/tranny, gut the chassis, throw on some drag slicks.. and go GTR hunting.

If all you want to do is keep up with mclarens at the track a brz can do it. But have fun with having a car that has no interior, no AC, no stereo, back breaking suspension, new brakes, straight piped, R compound tires that don't work in the rain or cold, has to run e85. And seeing multiple track days its not a matter of if but when that motor will grenade.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by humdizzle

you can make anything fast with enough money. I could buy a beat up fox body 5.0 stang, throw a few thousand in the engine/tranny, gut the chassis, throw on some drag slicks.. and go GTR hunting.

If all you want to do is keep up with mclarens at the track a brz can do it. But have fun with having a car that has no interior, no AC, no stereo, back breaking suspension, new brakes, straight piped, R compound tires that don't work in the rain or cold, has to run e85. And seeing multiple track days its not a matter of if but when that motor will grenade.

It's really not a hassle to run e85 if there are enough stations near by. i am currently running e85 on my car.

I personally couldn't care less about tracking my car. I'm actually happy with 220bhp.

I will FI mine and get to about 300whp on e85. That's about the limit for my dd.

I'm in a quandry as to what I want to do though. We just got a z06 in at work and I'm seriously considering saying screw it and just trade my frs in on that and be done with it; however, I love modding my car so I'm not sure I will.

Decisions, Decisions.

Jaden

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Cole

Regardless of @CSG Mike being a Honda fanboy or not (not claiming you are, just for arguments sake), I certainly wouldn't want to be driving my FRS with nearly double the power output of stock on stock internals for any length of time. Pushing the HP and TQ numbers up by around 100 each? Sure. But asking double of what the stock numbers are? Not a chance. I wanted a supercharger for my car, but realistically, I don't trust it to be a reliable DD

EDIT: Also, @Jaden if you wanted more power out of a car, you should be looking elsewhere. This platform isn't about number crunching.

50% increase in power is typical for 91 pump gas and a supercharger that's 300bhp. It has been for quite some time. Even back in the 90's sc's were getting 50% increases in power reliably.

80% increases are EASILY attainable on race fuels SAFELY with the advancement of timing that comes with the lower detonation danger of those types of fuels. E85 allows for those advanced timing and in many places it's viable to run on E85 all the time now.

So, yes, contrary to what the haters put out there, 330-350 whp is safe on these engines running E85. Is it gonna last 200K miles tracking every weekend? NO, but it can be a reliable DD none the less. 280whp is safe on these engines running 93, that's about 65% over stock which is far from unheard of even back in the nineties running psi based manual fuel pressure adjusters or FMUs, it's especially doable and much safer now with programmable VVT and knock correction.

Jaden

[humdizzle]

will a 300whp brz hook up on the street? how wide a tire can you run on these things?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jaden

40k

You're telling me that you're sitting, in boost, making over 200hp, for 40k miles?

Perhaps you did not understand my question. How many of these miles were *while your engine was putting out more than 200hp*. Not "could make more than 200hp", but actually making more than 200hp. As in, you have your foot on the gas, and the engine would, right at that moment, be making 200hp on a dyno.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jaden

50% increase in power is typical for 91 pump gas and a supercharger that's 300bhp. It has been for quite some time. Even back in the 90's sc's were getting 50% increases in power reliably.

80% increases are EASILY attainable on race fuels SAFELY with the advancement of timing that comes with the lower detonation danger of those types of fuels. E85 allows for those advanced timing and in many places it's viable to run on E85 all the time now.

So, yes, contrary to what the haters put out there, 330-350 whp is safe on these engines running E85. Is it gonna last 200K miles tracking every weekend? NO, but it can be a reliable DD none the less. 280whp is safe on these engines running 93, that's about 65% over stock which is far from unheard of even back in the nineties running psi based manual fuel pressure adjusters or FMUs, it's especially doable and much safer now with programmable VVT and knock correction.

Jaden

This isn't the era of overbuilt iron blocks. This is the era of "lets make the car 'just good enough' to minimize cost". If a part is too strong, it's too expensive, and needs to be made more cheaply. Unless it's a part's bin part that makes up for the expense in sheer volume. Like the differential in the twins.

You talk the talk, but you don't walk the walk. Come back to me after running your 400bhp setup for 40k miles, and we can chat.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by humdizzle

will a 300whp brz hook up on the street? how wide a tire can you run on these things?

Absolutely. You can fit a 295 on the rear, although I wouldn't recommend it. Also, compound is more important than size.

[thill]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

340whp is NOT reliable on this platform. If you think otherwise, you're either inexperienced, uneducated, or perhaps, both.

Look at how many cars/projects are abandoned after a failure. How many owners have just disappeared with no updates to their build threads?

Unfortunately this.. Not a slam on the FT86 platform, I love the car, but hard to deny the above.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

And how many of those tens of thousands of miles are actually at an output level north of 200hp? I bet not many.

340whp is NOT reliable on this platform. If you think otherwise, you're either inexperienced, uneducated, or perhaps, both.

Just out of curiosity, what level of boost do you think is reliable at this point? Off the shelf CARB approved tune, additional cooling as required, Jackson and Vortech are both advertising ~300hp at the crank, is this long term sustainable i.e. >100k miles of daily driving with maybe a dozen track days/AutoX per year?

I know this isn't the place but I think it's more valuable than whatever b.s. would continue.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Just out of curiosity, what level of boost do you think is reliable at this point? Off the shelf CARB approved tune, additional cooling as required, Jackson and Vortech are both advertising ~300hp at the crank, is this long term sustainable i.e. >100k miles of daily driving with maybe a dozen track days/AutoX per year?

I know this isn't the place but I think it's more valuable than whatever b.s. would continue.

I think 300 is reasonable with a GOOD tune. The CARB tunes are examples of highly developed tunes that both generate a lot of power AND preserve reliability.

I can say with 100% confidence that no other CARB tune has been as extensively tested and proven as the JRSC tune has.

There's a lot of evidence behind my statements, which I'd be more than happy to discuss in person, but not post online.

[SciOnDrifTtSlIdeR]

that Gt-86 rips pretty good corners look like zillions of fun times