follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine Swaps

Engine Swaps Discussion of engine swaps.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-15-2021, 01:02 PM   #617
Ebush
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Drives: 2017 Hot Lava 86
Location: Ohio
Posts: 151
Thanks: 11
Thanked 113 Times in 64 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Just got this from kpower.

Hey Eric,

Interesting, I really appreciate this info. This actually did happen in our car once, although we almost always had at least half a tank in the car during all of our track testing. We discussed with Haltech at the time, and they said the fuel gauge is analog and does not interact with the ECU, so our fuel level sender was probably just going bad. I ordered a new sender, but it hasn't been installed yet. We figured it was just an isolated issue.

However, your email tells us otherwise, and prompted us to dig into this more this morning. We now have learned that Haltech was wrong, and the gauge is definitely controlled by the CAN protocols in the Elite 1500, per the Subaru wiring diagrams. I put a call into Haltech today to see what needs to be done to get this software updated ASAP.

So we now know that it's a known issue, and we will work with Haltech on a resolution. Expect another update from us soon. In the meantime, just keep your fuel tank full
Ebush is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Ebush For This Useful Post:
captain awesome (12-15-2021), DustinS (12-15-2021), endless_pain (12-20-2021), Irace86.2.0 (12-15-2021), Jdmjunkie (12-15-2021), ML (12-15-2021), venenon (12-18-2021)
Old 12-15-2021, 01:03 PM   #618
captain awesome
Wears Pants
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Drives: 14 FRS K24 swap
Location: Bella Vista, AR
Posts: 407
Thanks: 166
Thanked 257 Times in 167 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Good to know it's going to get sorted. Hopefully it's the last bug to deal with.
captain awesome is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to captain awesome For This Useful Post:
DustinS (12-15-2021), Jdmjunkie (12-15-2021)
Old 12-15-2021, 02:10 PM   #619
Irace86.2.0
K Swap Everything
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 6,251
Thanks: 4,589
Thanked 4,801 Times in 2,672 Posts
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Any chance eliminating the fuel pump ECU is part of the problem? I don't think so, but I just wanted to throw that out there.
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 03:12 PM   #620
Ebush
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Drives: 2017 Hot Lava 86
Location: Ohio
Posts: 151
Thanks: 11
Thanked 113 Times in 64 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
Any chance eliminating the fuel pump ECU is part of the problem? I don't think so, but I just wanted to throw that out there.
I had thought about this as well, I wonder if @DustinS has deleted the fuel pump ECU.
Ebush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 06:20 PM   #621
ML
Senior Member
 
ML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Drives: 13 White MT FR-S
Location: Gastonia, NC
Posts: 1,674
Thanks: 819
Thanked 779 Times in 411 Posts
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Mine is wired directly to the digital dash and is working. Can you try adding the fuel level gauge I’m the tune and selecting can network for wiring?
__________________


Build Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Symbiont View Post
I swear I will punch your car if you put these on. Right in the face.
ML is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ML For This Useful Post:
DustinS (12-15-2021)
Old 12-15-2021, 06:27 PM   #622
DustinS
Senior Member
 
DustinS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Drives: 2013 Ultramarine FR-S
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 1,926
Thanks: 2,511
Thanked 1,363 Times in 788 Posts
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebush View Post
I had thought about this as well, I wonder if @DustinS has deleted the fuel pump ECU.
I have not. I bypassed the fuel pump power only, left everything else plugged in as I didn't want to mess with it.
__________________
DustinS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 06:33 PM   #623
captain awesome
Wears Pants
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Drives: 14 FRS K24 swap
Location: Bella Vista, AR
Posts: 407
Thanks: 166
Thanked 257 Times in 167 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ML View Post
Mine is wired directly to the digital dash and is working. Can you try adding the fuel level gauge Iím the tune and selecting can network for wiring?

I only saw a drop down for AVI1 or SPI1 still being available. Nothing about CAN control on anything listed.



If the AVI1 is still a possible pin, then technically I think it could be used if Haltech isn't able to patch things up.
captain awesome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 06:40 PM   #624
Irace86.2.0
K Swap Everything
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 6,251
Thanks: 4,589
Thanked 4,801 Times in 2,672 Posts
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebush View Post
I had thought about this as well, I wonder if @DustinS has deleted the fuel pump ECU.
Looking back at the wiring diagram, the Fuel Pump ECU seems to have two wires going back to the ECU and the rest are just outputs. I'm guessing there is a signal coming in from the ECU with some basic parameter for fuel needs and then there is an output to the ECU to tell the ECU what the Fuel Pump ECU chose to output maybe for OBDII codes or feedback control or something. Best guess. Seems like bypassing the Fuel Pump ECU would do nothing except make the fuel pump operate with peak voltage all the time like Kpower says, and maybe its absence could trigger a trouble code or whatever other signal goes back to the ECU, but I doubt it interplays with the fuel level sensor.

I really don't know how the ECU, CPU and CANBUS system all interplays from the wiring diagrams, but the CPU seems to be running the Combination Meter Assembly, and the Fuel Sensor seems to run to the CPU, but the CAN Driver also seems to be involved in the process per the wiring diagram.

This video (first video) below seems to describe the same situation. He says the same thing another guy said (second video), which is that the fuel level sensor is analog, but then he says (first video) the sensor computes the value from the tachometer, so it may say 1/4 tank, but be empty. Wouldn't this imply the fuel level sensor is basically CANBUS controlled if the tach is CANBUS controlled, and if not all the time then at least when the tank gets low, right?


Attached Images
 
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 06:43 PM   #625
ML
Senior Member
 
ML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Drives: 13 White MT FR-S
Location: Gastonia, NC
Posts: 1,674
Thanks: 819
Thanked 779 Times in 411 Posts
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain awesome View Post
I only saw a drop down for AVI1 or SPI1 still being available. Nothing about CAN control on anything listed.



If the AVI1 is still a possible pin, then technically I think it could be used if Haltech isn't able to patch things up.
Ah I see, but according to the email Eric posted from kpower it would need to be set like that. I wonder if Haltech can modify it idk.
__________________


Build Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Symbiont View Post
I swear I will punch your car if you put these on. Right in the face.
ML is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 07:48 PM   #626
brzlegend
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Drives: brz
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 55
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
Any chance eliminating the fuel pump ECU is part of the problem? I don't think so, but I just wanted to throw that out there.
What exactly are you calling the fuel pump ecu?

I am just assuming but from all the evidence I think fuel level is calculated, maybe from injector flow, which probably has flags to recalibrate when fueling up.

Ecutek as an example highjacked the fuel level to show a different parameter, they said it worked but it would throw the gauge off, then would have to be reset by unhooking the battery or refueling.

Last edited by brzlegend; 12-15-2021 at 08:26 PM.
brzlegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 07:53 PM   #627
geraldjust
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Drives: MR2, Sliver BRZ
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 249
Thanks: 4
Thanked 195 Times in 88 Posts
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
sorry for anyone that got confused about my video but let me shed some light into this.

The fuel level system is a hybrid system. The cluster reads the raw value (analog resistive sensor) level sensor. This lets the cluster know the rough estimate of fuel. To combat variations in the level sensing, (high G turns, going up hill, down hill, sloshing etc... ) the cluster also uses the fuel economy to determine fuel usage. this is a combination of a special engine parameter being transmitted. This goes along with the ABS to determine the fuel economy that then the cluster uses that with the combination of the analog sensor.

I already fixed this issue with my own products (translator modules), and helped "wiringspecialties" with this too. I will get in contact with both haltech and kindustries so see how i can help them fix this.

Gerald R.
__________________
Always looking to tinker with something..
geraldjust is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to geraldjust For This Useful Post:
captain awesome (12-15-2021), endless_pain (12-20-2021), Irace86.2.0 (12-15-2021), Jdmjunkie (12-16-2021), ML (12-15-2021), pgranberg11 (12-16-2021), RedReplicant (01-17-2022)
Old 12-15-2021, 09:33 PM   #628
Irace86.2.0
K Swap Everything
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 6,251
Thanks: 4,589
Thanked 4,801 Times in 2,672 Posts
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by brzlegend View Post
What exactly are you calling the fuel pump ecu?

I am just assuming but from all the evidence I think fuel level is calculated, maybe from injector flow, which probably has flags to recalibrate when fueling up.

Ecutek as an example highjacked the fuel level to show a different parameter, they said it worked but it would throw the gauge off, then would have to be reset by unhooking the battery or refueling.
Fuel Pump ECU is the Fuel Pump ECU from the Kpower system and from the wiring diagram. It uses signals from the Engine ECU to output a 9V vs a 12V signal to the fuel pump, so when the fuel pump doesn't need to be cranked up, it isn't. Apparently, this will prolong the life of the fuel pump and reduce cabin noise.

Anyways, it is a non-issue. Seems we have the answer now.
__________________

Last edited by Irace86.2.0; 12-15-2021 at 09:50 PM. Reason: Fixed an error
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 09:40 PM   #629
geraldjust
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Drives: MR2, Sliver BRZ
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 249
Thanks: 4
Thanked 195 Times in 88 Posts
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
Fuel Pump ECU is the Fuel Pump ECU from the Kpower system and from the wiring diagram. It uses signals from the Engine ECU to output a 9V vs a 12V signal to the fuel pump, so when the fuel pump doesn't need to be cranked up, it isn't. Apparently, this will prolong ECU life and reduce cabin noise.

Anyways, it is a non-issue. Seems we have the answer now.
you referring to the fuel pump controller?
__________________
Always looking to tinker with something..
geraldjust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 09:42 PM   #630
brzlegend
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Drives: brz
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 55
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by geraldjust View Post
you referring to the fuel pump controller?
x2
brzlegend is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rigid Industries SR-Series Pro Light Bar on my BRZ Stang70Fastback Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting) 3 12-29-2019 03:13 PM
Airlift from industries finest J_Nasty Member's Car Journals 0 02-04-2017 01:59 PM
Carbox Industries - Introduction CarBox CANADIAN Sales 5 04-22-2014 01:22 PM
86 industries Duthebarber Northern California 70 03-28-2014 04:10 PM
Another 86 Industries another bad experience sikest User/Vendor/Sponsor Reviews, Feedback, Comments 3 03-13-2014 01:00 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.