High performance and race engine oil tests

[Kamran]

This is the first test of a series. The future test will test for metal content. So stay tuned.

http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf

[Captain Snooze]

I am replying with very limited knowledge on the subject but I'm not sure if this test (film strength test) is the most important criteria in a motor oil.

I appreciate that marketing probably influences this statement but maybe there is some truth to it as well:

"There are certain oils in the market today that use EP (extreme pressure) additives in their engine oil that are really designed for gear oils and not engine oils. Extreme pressure additives are typically not used in engine oils for a number of reasons but the most important is because they can cause engine corrosion over time. The rigs being used in these demonstrations are primarily designed for industrial applications like gear oils where extreme pressure is an important performance feature you need. These demonstration rigs have very little to do with modern engines and that is the reason that market leading oils in the industry perform poorly in these tests."

https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English..._Strength.aspx

[jdzumwalt]

I have used RP with very good results. Currently this is in my FRS 0/40wt

[Walldodger]

That artical was retracted in a subsequent issue of Street Commodores. The test they did was for grease not oil.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I am replying with very limited knowledge on the subject but I'm not sure if this test (film strength test) is the most important criteria in a motor oil.

I appreciate that marketing probably influences this statement but maybe there is some truth to it as well:

"There are certain oils in the market today that use EP (extreme pressure) additives in their engine oil that are really designed for gear oils and not engine oils. Extreme pressure additives are typically not used in engine oils for a number of reasons but the most important is because they can cause engine corrosion over time. The rigs being used in these demonstrations are primarily designed for industrial applications like gear oils where extreme pressure is an important performance feature you need. These demonstration rigs have very little to do with modern engines and that is the reason that market leading oils in the industry perform poorly in these tests."

https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English..._Strength.aspx

This. The Timken test is for grease and other EP fluids.

There are many household fluids (shampoo, chlorine, etc) that would beat many engine oils in that test. That certainly doesn't mean it's an ideal engine oil substitute

That test is 100% worthless as far as engine oil testing is concerned.

[Kamran]

huh... well I guess I'll be using Vidal Sassoon in my engine the next time I head for the track!!!

I'd actually be interested in questioning how the oil "age" could be tested with respect to the protective addetives and internal metal wear. I'm familiar with oil analysis/degradation and results, but not much testing is out there comparing aged oil, as much as there are for good aged bottle of St Emilion wine!!! lol

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Kamran

huh... well I guess I'll be using Vidal Sassoon in my engine the next time I head for the track!!!

I'm guessing that has a lot of detergent in it but I'm not sure about it's anti-foaming qualities.

[Walldodger]

Street Commodores retraction.

http://www.streetcommodores.com.au/n..._aint_oils.php

If there's one thing we try and do here at Street Commodores, it's give you, our readers un-biased info on which products are good, and which ones suck. There's so much BS marketing guff out there, that it can be tough to nut out which products can walk the walk – so that's where we come in, doing our best to sort the Holdens from the Lada Nivas.
A few months back (issue 108), you might remember we did an oil comparison. At the time, we thought it was a bloody good thing, and we don't mind telling you we were pretty proud to publish an article that basically bagged a heap of big name brands. You see, at Street Commodores, we can't, and won't be bought. We like to play things straight. And in the name of playing things straight, we'd like to tell you what has happened since that story went to print.
Basically, we made a few oil companies very cross, and some others quite happy; but we've also been educated some more on engine oils, and being the type of publication that we are, we wanted to fill you in on it. The information we've learned since then suggests the test we performed may be irrelevant. Some sources have advised us that the test we used would have been better served testing some of our favourite greases rather than the engine oils we commonly use on our street cars. Sure, we did the test with the best intentions, with a level playing field for each oil and no preconceptions as to who would perform better than another, but when, and if, we mess up, we like to think that we're man enough to set the record straight.
So keep an eye out in an upcoming issue real soon for an in-depth look at what makes up the contents of your oil, what to look for when choosing one, why certain ingredients are so important and whether the test we used was irrelevant for testing oils.

looks like their next test will be thorough, but importantly done right.

[Kamran]

I wonder if it still provides some info in relation to motorcycle oil where the transmission (gears) baths in engine oil.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Kamran

I wonder if it still provides some info in relation to motorcycle oil where the transmission (gears) baths in engine oil.

That test would apply anywhere an EP oil is needed, such as a differential. Of course, they didn't test gear oils so the data from the article isn't too useful.

RP just has EP additives in their oils, worthless for an engine, but it makes them look good when people do testing like that. Slick 50 and various other snake oils did the same testing on TV ads back in the day.

[jdzumwalt]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

That test would apply anywhere an EP oil is needed, such as a differential. Of course, they didn't test gear oils so the data from the article isn't too useful.

RP just has EP additives in their oils, worthless for an engine, but it makes them look good when people do testing like that. Slick 50 and various other snake oils did the same testing on TV ads back in the day.

Royal Purple has been in my offraod Turbo charged 22re with sustained 250+ temps at 15+psi(4+hrs no cool down) with no loss of a bearing or major engine failure.

The Bearing's look great upon teardown and the piston where able to be reused. Say what you want but that stuff coats the engine. I've seen it with my own eyes.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by jdzumwalt

Royal Purple has been in my offraod Turbo charged 22re with sustained 250+ temps at 15+psi(4+hrs no cool down) with no loss of a bearing or major engine failure.

The Bearing's look great upon teardown and the piston where able to be reused. Say what you want but that stuff coats the engine. I've seen it with my own eyes.

I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't saying RP was bad oil (it's not my favorite but it's not bad). My race engine sees almost 300 degree temps for 24 hours with no stop and no loss of bearing or engine failure with thousands and thousands of miles. The point I'm making with that is your statement is post hoc ergo propter hoc. I could have the same results with say, Castrol GTX. If neither fail that doesn't mean the two oil are equal

The slick 50/snake oil bit had nothing to do with RP. The fact is engines do NOT need EP additives and the Timken test is for EP testing, making it invalid as an engine oil test.

[jdzumwalt]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't saying RP was bad oil (it's not my favorite but it's not bad). My race engine sees almost 300 degree temps for 24 hours with no stop and no loss of bearing or engine failure with thousands and thousands of miles. The point I'm making with that is your statement is post hoc ergo propter hoc. I could have the same results with say, Castrol GTX. If neither fail that doesn't mean the two oil are equal

The slick 50/snake oil bit had nothing to do with RP. The fact is engines do NOT need EP additives and the Timken test is for EP testing, making it invalid as an engine oil test.

I agree with you on the bad test, What Oil's are you using?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by jdzumwalt

I agree with you on the bad test, What Oil's are you using?

I used to run Amsoil. Lately I've been using Mobil 1 since it's easy to find. It's not my preferred choice but it works for now until I want to stock up on lots of good oil.. When I do a run to the Amsoil distribution center I usually grab ~$1k of oils and I just haven't felt like doing so lately.