follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB

Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB Problems, issues, recalls, TSBs


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-11-2021, 06:39 PM   #29
FrickingReallySlow
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Drives: 2015 FR-S
Location: San francisco
Posts: 356
Thanks: 144
Thanked 154 Times in 101 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
+1 on this. At this point you'll have to check every electrical harness connection /sensor /GND look at the pins to make there there's no damage or seating issues. Also did you attached the 2 ground wires on each side of the engine on the bottom. THey're thin ground wires and some people break them while lifting the engine and forget to reconnect.

Or your ECU is somehow damaged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzmitry View Post
Weird. Seems like everything is working. It's almost as if the ECU is not recognizing fuel flow or something like that. You got a few misfires there. With LTFT and STFT still not showing, I would think some kind of sensors or something along the lines are not working or not installed properly. The ECU is seeing this and shutting the car off as it doesn't believe it is getting fuel to some extent?? I don't know, because it is recognizing the fuel pump duty % and quantity.

Last edited by FrickingReallySlow; 09-11-2021 at 11:13 PM.
FrickingReallySlow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2021, 09:17 PM   #30
Opie
Senior Member
 
Opie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: '13 BRZ TLM Spec
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,949
Thanks: 1,600
Thanked 2,301 Times in 993 Posts
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
When you reinstall the intake manifold, did anything change? I've rolled over the intake manifold gaskets during installation (vacuum leak) before and it'll run for a few seconds then shut off. Removing and correctly installing those gaskets usually does the trick, if not a leak there, there is a leak somewhere else, loose fitting, hose, etc. in the air intake system.

You can use brake cleaner to find vacuum leaks...but do so at your own risk because it is flammable.

Are you sure this is capped off and sealed 100%?
Attached Images
 
__________________
2013 BRZ Premium 6MT - Track Car, 2020 GMC Canyon Denali Duramax - Tow Vehicle, 2021 Forester Sport - Wife's Daily, 2016 Crosstrek - Daughter's Ride and always buying random flips...
Opie is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Opie For This Useful Post:
jrhudson (09-12-2021)
Old 09-12-2021, 06:22 PM   #31
jrhudson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: 2016 scion frs
Location: ca
Posts: 234
Thanks: 122
Thanked 100 Times in 67 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie View Post
When you reinstall the intake manifold, did anything change? I've rolled over the intake manifold gaskets during installation (vacuum leak) before and it'll run for a few seconds then shut off. Removing and correctly installing those gaskets usually does the trick, if not a leak there, there is a leak somewhere else, loose fitting, hose, etc. in the air intake system.

You can use brake cleaner to find vacuum leaks...but do so at your own risk because it is flammable.

Are you sure this is capped off and sealed 100%?
Upon reading your advice i removed the intake manifold again. Whats weird is i didnt see my gaskets rolled over but looking at the LH intake on the heads theres some light markings near the inlet. but now Im sure the gaskets are sealing now, i removed everything that was in the way for an easy intake manifold install.

The cap was sealed, at least i think but to be sure i switched to the oem sound tube and capped it off further down on the sound tube. I dont think installing the intake manifold did anything. I reinstalled everything again and fired her up...then she dies immediately.

I got the car to start up and idle but i need to apply some throttle right after startup to keep her running. After applying some throttle the car would keep on running with no issues. Really weird i didnt change anything.

Questions cause im scurred to keep idling her.
when i was revving it my knock correction learn value was going up a little, it increased as i revved and went back down when i lifted off the throttle. Is that normal? What is good oil pressure for built motors? Right now theres 5w-30 conventional oil in the engine per break in instructions. The oil temps were at 170-176F and my oil pressure was at 20psi. Is that too low? I just remember when i was on stock motor, my oil pressure for that would be like 30psi on 5w-30 for same oil temps

Video of me starting with no throttle and starting with throttle




For the 2nd video, maybe im just paranoid, now but does my motor sound normal? It sounds extra clacky then the high pressure fuel pump goes off but i know the fuel pump is clacky like that. Just the prior clackiness sounds odd to me.

https://youtube.com/shorts/ub0YvsVSruM?feature=share


https://datazap.me/u/jrhudson/startu...?log=0&data=20

Theres 3 different logs in this one.
1st one is the one where i let her idle a little bit.



Cheers!
Attached Images
    

Last edited by jrhudson; 09-12-2021 at 10:18 PM.
jrhudson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2021, 09:14 PM   #32
itschris
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Drives: '14
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 46
Thanks: 19
Thanked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Seems like you need to keep blipping throttle until the ecu moves out of warmup mode into closed loop mode and can add fuel so it doesn't die lean?

Were you able to follow through with Opie's suggestion to spray some brake cleaner around to look for any vacuum leaks? I've done this to check areas I can't reach well. If the engine starts racing, fumes are getting in and you know there's a leak.

Sounds normal to me.
__________________
Always learning.
itschris is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to itschris For This Useful Post:
Dzmitry (09-13-2021), jrhudson (09-12-2021), Opie (09-13-2021)
Old 09-12-2021, 10:17 PM   #33
jrhudson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: 2016 scion frs
Location: ca
Posts: 234
Thanks: 122
Thanked 100 Times in 67 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by itschris View Post
Seems like you need to keep blipping throttle until the ecu moves out of warmup mode into closed loop mode and can add fuel so it doesn't die lean?

Were you able to follow through with Opie's suggestion to spray some brake cleaner around to look for any vacuum leaks? I've done this to check areas I can't reach well. If the engine starts racing, fumes are getting in and you know there's a leak.

Sounds normal to me.
Yup, applying throttle or it just dies like always.

I haven't done break cleaner vacuum leak search yet. Mainly because i wasn't really sure how to go about doing it.

Just so i get this right:
Spray brake cleaner on the areas that vacuum/air could escape, especially places that are hard to get to.
fire her up and if engine's rpm starts going crazy then the leak is in that area,

I'll try tomorrow since it seems like a somewhat fast check.
jrhudson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2021, 10:31 PM   #34
itschris
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Drives: '14
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 46
Thanks: 19
Thanked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhudson View Post
Yup, applying throttle or it just dies like always.

I haven't done break cleaner vacuum leak search yet. Mainly because i wasn't really sure how to go about doing it.

Just so i get this right:
Spray brake cleaner on the areas that vacuum/air could escape, especially places that are hard to get to.
fire her up and if engine's rpm starts going crazy then the leak is in that area,

I'll try tomorrow since it seems like a somewhat fast check.
Yeah, it's pretty quick.

Play with the throttle like you have until it's idling without help. While it's idling spray brake cleaner near the areas you mentioned. The rpms will rise if the fumes are getting in and fall after any residual brake clean evaporates.
__________________
Always learning.
itschris is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to itschris For This Useful Post:
jrhudson (09-12-2021), Opie (09-13-2021)
Old 09-12-2021, 11:04 PM   #35
jrhudson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: 2016 scion frs
Location: ca
Posts: 234
Thanks: 122
Thanked 100 Times in 67 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by itschris View Post
Yeah, it's pretty quick.

Play with the throttle like you have until it's idling without help. While it's idling spray brake cleaner near the areas you mentioned. The rpms will rise if the fumes are getting in and fall after any residual brake clean evaporates.
Appreciate it for dumbing that down for me.

just another quick question. well i did ask if but i'm assuming you might not know. Would you know what good oil pressure for a built fa20 would be? I'm asking because once I got her idling, I was expecting the oil pressure (60-80psi) to drop to around 50psi, i believe the oil temp was 150F-160F. It was just alarming to see it drop so fast to 30psi. i think i changed pants after that.

The lowest i saw it was at 20 psi at 175F. (5w30 conventional currently in the car)
jrhudson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2021, 11:21 PM   #36
itschris
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Drives: '14
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 46
Thanks: 19
Thanked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhudson View Post
Appreciate it for dumbing that down for me.

just another quick question. well i did ask if but i'm assuming you might not know. Would you know what good oil pressure for a built fa20 would be? I'm asking because once I got her idling, I was expecting the oil pressure (60-80psi) to drop to around 50psi, i believe the oil temp was 150F-160F. It was just alarming to see it drop so fast to 30psi. i think i changed pants after that.

The lowest i saw it was at 20 psi at 175F. (5w30 conventional currently in the car)
Not sure about that one. I think you'll have to ask IAG since they claim to modify the oiling system. I wouldn't sweat those pressures since you're not beating on the car yet. If you're asking if they're indicative of low flow I couldn't say.

FWIW, the factory service manual specifies 7.3psi minimum at idle and 73psi minimum at 6k rpm, both at 176F.
__________________
Always learning.
itschris is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to itschris For This Useful Post:
jrhudson (09-13-2021)
Old 09-13-2021, 03:15 PM   #37
jrhudson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: 2016 scion frs
Location: ca
Posts: 234
Thanks: 122
Thanked 100 Times in 67 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I tried to look for vacuum leaks with propane instead of brake cleaner.

I didnt find any vacuum leaks. No change in rpm at all after i got her idling.

Put the propane at; Intake manifold gaskets, port injectors, under intake manifold, pcv valve, brake booste lines even dipstick. Anything i miss? Should i have done this with brake cleaner?

Im a bit defeated now.


Only thing i could think to check now is the timing. But i know i timed it right. My mechanic friend said the timing could have jumped 1 tooth or something like that.
jrhudson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 07:22 PM   #38
itschris
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Drives: '14
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 46
Thanks: 19
Thanked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
You seem confident, so I'd trust your timing.

I'm still stuck on the vacuum leak theory. When in injection mode 1 (PI), LTFT + STFT hits 23ish. The car switches over to injection mode 2 (DI), LTFT and STFT is zeroed and climbs back to 22ish. Since those values are the same and open loop runs lean, I think the fuel side of the afr is likely correct and there's just too much air. If something was off with your fueling I think I'd expect to see a mismatch between fuel trims for each injection mode.

I would probably retest for leaks with brake clean. I haven't tried propane but that stuff is pretty dense. I imagine you'd have to literally touch the hose/nozzle to the leak to see any effect. Failing that, I'd test for leaks with smoke. Mostly to rule out the chance that you're forgetting to check somewhere.

Edit: I missed your post saying it runs with the MAF unplugged. I would double check your upstream O2 sensor is seated, and if it is try a new one
__________________
Always learning.

Last edited by itschris; 09-13-2021 at 09:10 PM.
itschris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 09:32 PM   #39
Dzmitry
Senior Member
 
Dzmitry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Drives: 2018 Subaru BRZ Limited with PP
Location: Phildalphia, Pennsylvania
Posts: 975
Thanks: 2,122
Thanked 609 Times in 391 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
The car definitely sounds like it's running good ones it is running on its own. The odd sounds you're hearing sound quite normal. Pressures can only be determined or specified by your engine builder (IAG). But as mentioned, it seems fine and nothing to worry about at the temps you describe. I would only worry if pressures were VERY different at such a temp, like below 10 psi or above 60 or something maybe. Even still, you would want to verify with IAG what the correct pressure specifications are. They should have this information or at least provide you with some guide.

I have no experience with the level of skill involved in the work you're doing, but with how hard you've been working to find a vacuum leak, I'm still wondering if there's something wrong on the fueling side. Fuel pump has some issues?? Any sensors on the fueling side? The MAF seems to be reading good values, but your STFT is bumpy. At least when it stabilizes. Obviously, prior to that it's not even getting readings, which at this point I have come to admit that it should not be that way (at least not for anywhere near that long).

This definitely seems to be where the issue lies, almost guaranteed. I mean the car struggles and can't idle while the logs are showing no data for STFT/LTFT, while everything else is in order. Then when you stabilize the vehicle and things are running, STFT could still be better and hops around a bit, probably more than it should.

I think if you had a vacuum leak, your problem would be slightly different, and we would see crazier MAF readings or crappy AFR even when you do get it idling on its own. If the AFR was bad enough that it wouldn't want to idle on the initial start, why would it all of a sudden fix itself a bit and start idling pretty decent after you stabilize it? A vacuum leak usually indicates consistent AFR problems. Or if the car can't idle from the start, I don't see how it would adjust itself enough to idle later.

Just the thoughts flowing through my mind...
Dzmitry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 11:23 PM   #40
jrhudson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: 2016 scion frs
Location: ca
Posts: 234
Thanks: 122
Thanked 100 Times in 67 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
My mechanic friend came over and did a simple unplug of the MAF, have me start the car, then he connected the MAF sensor. Car went a little rough then went back to it's normal idle for 1-2 minutes before it dies. which it never did for me when i tried this. It would die immediately after the MAF was plugged in.

He then said, try it again. Car fires up and stays idling!! He said, maybe you didn't let the car's ecu learn idle? waaaah??! He knew what to do, professional mechanic go figure, but he admitted that he didnt do anything lol. He spent like 5 minutes diagnosing the problem and fixed it like 5 minutes later.

I'm confused, it didn't seem like what I did was different from what he did. Maybe reseating the intake manifold gaskets actually did the trick?
Thanks to everyone that posted any advice. It really did help.

How does my everything look know in terms of the datalog? All good?

https://datazap.me/u/jrhudson/idles-...?log=1&data=20
3 logs.
i believe the 3rd one is the one from startup.

Last edited by jrhudson; 09-13-2021 at 11:58 PM. Reason: more info
jrhudson is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jrhudson For This Useful Post:
Dzmitry (09-14-2021)
Old 09-14-2021, 12:19 AM   #41
itschris
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Drives: '14
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 46
Thanks: 19
Thanked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Fuel trims still seem high to me at around +20 combined. If you're positive there's no leaks it'll be sorted out when you get tuned.

I don't think it's a normal characteristic of a new build, but you could double check and ask in the datalog thread.
__________________
Always learning.
itschris is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to itschris For This Useful Post:
Dzmitry (09-14-2021), jrhudson (09-14-2021)
Old 09-14-2021, 04:18 PM   #42
FrickingReallySlow
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Drives: 2015 FR-S
Location: San francisco
Posts: 356
Thanks: 144
Thanked 154 Times in 101 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Also concerning that your idle speed is SO LOW. it should be around ~970rpm not 600rpm
FrickingReallySlow is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2015 BRZ car starts then dies right away AndehLu Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 1 05-16-2019 12:35 AM
Car starts and dies immediately. P0171 (too lean) gkanga Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 15 04-22-2018 12:16 AM
86 dies at stops Saviorself Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 9 08-05-2016 04:00 PM
Electric dies when trying to start, disconnect/reconnect battery starts fine gregdobs Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 10 05-12-2015 10:37 AM
Tokyo Motor Show press days starts tomorrow (tonight here in North America)!! MR2fan Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 14 10-22-2009 01:43 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.