Report: Subaru Coupe STI Model Possible, But Without Turbo

[Dimman]

^ Everything I've read so far, is based on the company's own samples and data. Until the production method is reproduced and tested by a third party, I call BS.

But since it is a patented process, who's going to reproduce it, hmmm?

Also the claim of 7% strength increase equals 30% weight savings???

[Ezio]

To be honest, I have no idea how the license to make multiple producers is going to happen. Nor am I a chemistry major, I am a well versed nerd who is training to be an automotive technician. I will however be making inquires to see if anyone else has their own numbers or is producing.

[Allch Chcar]

I find it ironic that everyone is so worried about the STI not being turbocharged that they forgot that the regular FT-86 is going to leave some power on the table. I know that it was only briefly suggested in an interview that the engine was capable of 225BHP, but I know they can do better than that if people were willing to pay the coin.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Until the production method is reproduced and tested by a third party, I call BS.

Wasn't that the whole point of the research the engineers at Ohio State University did and eventually published in a peer-reviewed journal; Materials Science and Technology. While Cola was a co-author, seems like it still involved a 3rd party with the faculty members of an academic institution.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Wasn't that the whole point of the research the engineers at Ohio State University did and eventually published in a peer-reviewed journal; Materials Science and Technology. While Cola was a co-author, seems like it still involved a 3rd party with the faculty members of an academic institution.

They didn't use his methods to produce their own steel to test.

They just used steel that he provided.

The bainite in the steel isn't a new thing, his claims seem pretty astronomical, and no-one has reproduced his magical 10-second manufacturing methods, only tested a sample that he himself provided.

Call me a skeptic but...

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Dimman

They didn't use his methods to produce their own steel to test.

They just used steel that he provided.

The bainite in the steel isn't a new thing, his claims seem pretty astronomical, and no-one has reproduced his magical 10-second manufacturing methods, only tested a sample that he himself provided.

Call me a skeptic but...

Ok I got you. So do you have no issue with the results provided but more with the manufacturing process to get the final product? Or are you skeptical about the production method and final results?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Ok I got you. So do you have no issue with the results provided but more with the manufacturing process to get the final product? Or are you skeptical about the production method and final results?

Both.

Because in one part it says a 7% increase in strength. But it doesn't say compared to what. (Compared to conventional cold-rolling? Hot rolling? Water quenched hardening? Normalized? Annealed?) And then he gives a massive tensile strength number for a normal 1020 steel, that is comparable to a high alloy 6150 chrome-vanadium steel. That's where I'm skeptical on the final result.

He's talking about outperforming Titanium 6Al-4V on a strength to weight comparison with a rather normal 4130 chrome-molybdenum steel. Normally 4130 and 6061-T6 aluminum are close in this department, and that grade of titanium destroys them on strength to weight. 7% strength increase of that chrome-moly won't accomplish that. So there is a conflict of his data right there.

Now if it was simply a 7% increase due to the bainite/martensite composition, that might be possible given the complexities of what goes on with the steel's microstructure. However bainite is more of a toughness feature than a strength feature. But even assuming this is true, there are conventional methods of fiddling with the microstructure involving controlling how the steel cools. Not just the rate, dropping a certain amount in a certain amount of time, then holding a temp for time before continuing cooling, etc... Pretty complicated process google up some Isothermal Transformation Diagrams if you're interested.

This is where his 10 second process could pay off, even if the strength increase isn't actually any different than the normal process. It could reduce the cost dramatically. So that process needs to be tested by a third party.

[dilly-o]

wft, where did all these metallurgy experts come from?!?
lol

[Random_Art]

Wikipedia?

[iff2mastamatt]

I'd hate to buy this car and then have a turbo model come out like 3 years later.

[Random_Art]

At some point you're going to have to just buy it. The way cars work with a better version perpetually on the horizon you'd end up either waiting forever because you're always worried about not getting the best model, or you'll buy and have buyers remorse in a few years because you're car is no longer top of the line.

If you're that worried, you could lease for a couple years.

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by Random_Art

At some point you're going to have to just buy it. The way cars work with a better version perpetually on the horizon you'd end up either waiting forever because you're always worried about not getting the best model, or you'll buy and have buyers remorse in a few years because you're car is no longer top of the line.

If you're that worried, you could lease for a couple years.

Lease or crash with GAP insurance, just hope you have accidental forgiveness. That's Allstate's stand.

[Random_Art]

more or less.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by dilly-o

wft, where did all these metallurgy experts come from?!?
lol

Speaking of; a recent email:

Thanks for the interest in Flash Bainite. I think acceptance has been more of struggle than the actual research. All of our tensile testing for development is done at ThyssenKrupp Labs in Detroit . Attached are a few tests from Flash 4140 (90511-…). Beyond that, another nine labs have validated the results. In general Flash Bainite has 7 to 9% A50 elongation. Total elongation ranges up to 11.5 in our testing. Unfortunately, since the steel is so strong for the TKS Lab tensile stand, we have to use narrower specimens which then reports lower elongation. Highly reputable labs have found 15% elongation.

Some people are not fond of 4130 or 4140. Flash Bainite is similar to conventional steel in that carbon is required for strength. Flash just gives you more strength with less carbon. The 90832… reports are of Flash 1020 with a little chromium added. This is my favorite as it is made on only 5 seconds yet is 60% stronger than a DP1000 with a little more elongation.

We are building a 48” wide pilot line and are scheduled for another round of trials this week. Another license exists for Armor production in western New York . We are talking to a very large steel melter that works closely with the automotive OEMs. As the article you saw us in has generated significant interest, we are hoping that number grows soon.

Talk to you soon,
Gary