Vacci-Nation [CLOSED DUE TO DISRESPECTFUL, INSULTING, POLITICAL POSTS

[JD001]

Funny development in the UK. Restrictions in England ease tomorrow, big day for the the government. Health Secretary tests positive yesterday and our Prime Minister has to go into isolation.. so much for the showboating tomorrow!!

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by JD001

Funny development in the UK. Restrictions in England ease tomorrow, big day for the the government. Health Secretary tests positive yesterday and our Prime Minister has to go into isolation.. so much for the showboating tomorrow!!

Same health secretary that was shagging his secretary?

[JD001]

Originally Posted by wbradley

Same health secretary that was shagging his secretary?

Nope, a new one.. This one had resigned a previous position in the cabinet over some issue with his aide!! His aide was marched out of parliament by police as she was leaking info to the press.. Cummings was behind it.. more sleaze to bubble to the surface..

The "shagging" minister has left his wife to set-up home with his aide... Not seen for weeks, mostly like enjoying shagging without the pressures of a camera crew in the background!!!

[Milhouse86]

What I don't get is why it's so important that everyone gets the vaccine if it's so effective? If it works like advertised then you are safe from unvaccinated people.

Personally I was just going to wait 6 -12 months and see whats what. Now with the freaking lottery entries and free food and essentially bribery to take a cure for a deadly virus.... You did not have to bribe me to take a lot of other vaccines, why this one?

All I am saying is something is off when we suddenly trust people like the Slacker family and completely shut down anyone who's asking legitimate questions.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Milhouse86

What I don't get is why it's so important that everyone gets the vaccine if it's so effective? If it works like advertised then you are safe from unvaccinated people..

It's needed long-term to eliminate the threat, and to keep it from mutating, not sure why that's so hard to understand.

[p1l0t]

LOL this article says if you have natural immunity one vaccine shot is near permanent immunity but if you only had the two shots and were never infected you'll probably need boosters.. like I said I'm still holding out until all the data is in. Sounds to me like natural immunity is going to win out (assuming you can survive it). Save the vaccines for the high risk people.

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...get-vaccinated

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[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Milhouse86

If it works like advertised then you are safe from unvaccinated people.

So you don't contribute to providing the virus a path of least resistance and the probability that will eventually give rise to variants, erasing the effectiveness of current vaccines and starting this process all over again. I can't imagine how you could feel compelled to sit back, unless you live mostly in a vacuum.

There are still way too many people unvaccinated, most willingly.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...-surge/619456/

[Milhouse86]

I notice only one of my arguments was countered. I do not make up my mind based on a single issue.

The evidence I have seen seems says getting healthy is the best way to avoid issues with covid. Why not more of a health push? Why so much faith in companies that just 2 years ago we all distrusted?

Why do I have to sign a waiver holding the drug companies harmless if they messed up? These same companies have the LARGEST lobbying group in America...

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by Milhouse86

What I don't get is why it's so important that everyone gets the vaccine if it's so effective? If it works like advertised then you are safe from unvaccinated people.

There is a long backstory to this thread and the discussions have been both tedious and acrimonious. I'm not sure where you've been for the last several months, but I'll treat this as a legitimate serious question.

Originally Posted by Milhouse86

Personally I was just going to wait 6 -12 months and see whats what. Now with the freaking lottery entries and free food and essentially bribery to take a cure for a deadly virus.... You did not have to bribe me to take a lot of other vaccines, why this one?

Viruses replicate at such a rapid rate that they can run through millions of generations in a short time. Each round opens the door for mutations. Some of those mutations will have survival value for the virus. Noticed the talk about a "delta" variant? More contagious, but seems to be still contained by the current crop of vaccines. Suppose an Omega variant emerges that is 1) more contagious 2) more virulent, and 3) can circumvent the current vaccines. That is not a far fetched concern. Probability suggests, that given enough time it WILL happen. Just a matter when.

Therefore, vaccines work best when they are broadly administered. We conquered polio and smallpox because we vaccinated such a large portion of the population that the virus had no potential hosts to infect, reproduce, and mutate. Vaccines are not just about protecting the vaccinated - they are about protecting society at large. That is a point that seems opaque to some of our fellow board members.

If Americans had approached the smallpox and polio vaccines with the degree of hostility we see today regarding the covid vaccines, you might very well have already died from one of them. The sad fact is that covid has become so highly politicized that rational discussion has stopped. Lies and disinformation have become truth to many of the vaccine holdouts. It's akin to the hysteria about fluoridation of drinking water in the 60s. For conservatives is was all a communist plot. So, those same folks put their fingers in their ears, hummm as loudly as possible and refuse to listen.

Originally Posted by Milhouse86

All I am saying is something is off when we suddenly trust people like the Slacker family and completely shut down anyone who's asking legitimate questions.

Who is trusting the Slackers? That they are still drawing breath is a travesty. Legitimate questions have been asked. And, those legitimate questions have been legitimately answered. That some don't seem to like those answers does not mean that constantly repeating the questions them makes those questions still relevant.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Milhouse86

What I don't get is why it's so important that everyone gets the vaccine if it's so effective? If it works like advertised then you are safe from unvaccinated people.

First, no vaccine is 100% effective, including the current COVID vaccines. From all the clinical studies that have been done, the effectiveness of the mRNA vaccines against the Delta variant seems to be about 80-88%. That's very good, but not perfect. Thus, unvaccinated people can and have infected vaccinated people, and caused them to become ill - and some to die.

Though breakthrough infections in vaccinated people are uncommon, when they do happen, they can be serious. This recent clinical study from Israel found a 22% mortality rate in breakthrough infections among vaccinated individuals:

https://gmed-una-storage.s3.amazonaw...cf4wjyidud.pdf

Second, new mutations are created in infected people. Each person who chooses to go unvaccinated not only endangers their own health and life and is a risk to others, but is also essentially a mutation factory. An infected person will have between 1 and 100 billion virions in their body -

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/25/e2024815118

Based on how quickly the coronavirus mutates

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7224694/

this means each infected person could potentially generate 1,000 to 100,000 of new mutations (very rough numbers). As @Capt_Spaulding said so well, while most mutations are inconsequential or even deleterious to the virus, the sheer number of new mutations constantly emerging means that some will have traits that benefit the virus' survival - at our expense.

We seem to be identifying a new variant about every 2-3 weeks. At that rate, there are likely to be new variants emerging much faster than modified vaccines could be deployed against them. There is already a potentially more serios variant than Delta identified - Lambda. At this rate, the human race will ultimately lose the war against the coronavirus.

Unrestrained by masking or social distancing, one infected person could cause 1,000 infections in one month, and one million infections in two months

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7224694/

The bottom line is, as others have said, it's not all about you. This is about respecting the rights of other people to live. Society doesn't allow people to choose to drive their cars the wrong way in the oncoming lane on the highway, nor to randomly fire their guns indiscriminately in any direction, and shouldn't allow selfish people to spew potentially fatal virions into the air that can sicken or kill others.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

Of course you dont.

Antivaxxers arguing be like...

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Milhouse86

What I don't get is why it's so important that everyone gets the vaccine if it's so effective? If it works like advertised then you are safe from unvaccinated people.

Personally I was just going to wait 6 -12 months and see whats what. Now with the freaking lottery entries and free food and essentially bribery to take a cure for a deadly virus.... You did not have to bribe me to take a lot of other vaccines, why this one?

All I am saying is something is off when we suddenly trust people like the Slacker family and completely shut down anyone who's asking legitimate questions.

Originally Posted by p1l0t

LOL this article says if you have natural immunity one vaccine shot is near permanent immunity but if you only had the two shots and were never infected you'll probably need boosters.. like I said I'm still holding out until all the data is in. Sounds to me like natural immunity is going to win out (assuming you can survive it). Save the vaccines for the high risk people.

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...get-vaccinated

Reread the article. It does not say what you think it says.

I don't know what you mean by "all the data is in". There is sufficient data to say that those who have not gotten sick yet should run, not walk, to get vaccinated. There is uncertain data to say that those who have gotten sick should definitely get a single dose, but the data shows that the second dose will be safe, so why not? Anecdotally, there are a bunch of dead Brazilians who caught the disease twice.

The article says nothing even close to that "natural immunity is going to win out". The doctors specifically say to give the vaccines to the unvaccinated and that those who got sick should probably take one shot.

[p1l0t]

Yeah conveniently oh if you're naturally immune take one shot and be good (as if you wouldn't be anyway). Yet if you just had two vaccinations you might need a booster... Let that sink in a bit.

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[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

Yeah conveniently oh if you're naturally immune take one shot and be good (as if you wouldn't be anyway). Yet if you just had two vaccinations you might need a booster... Let that sink in a bit.

I don't understand your point.