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Old 10-15-2009, 09:38 AM   #1
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Question Anyone AE86 owners here? Can FT86 improve on AE86?

I think I see some AE86 owners as members here already. I've never owned or driven one but obviously the car has become some kind of legend. So I was wondering if you owners think that theres anything Toyota can actually improve upon with the FT86 compared to the AE86?

Obviously there's things that will just be better because it's more modern like interior quality, but is there anything that the AE86 was lacking in that the FT86 could actually be better than it in?
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:11 PM   #2
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I'm curious too.

But maybe the mythology of the AE86 has been built up so much that the FT86 will be given a chance to be as good or better
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:14 PM   #3
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ummmmm.... more POWER, better BRAKES, sweeter SUSPENSION, smoother LINES and BRAND SPANKIN NEW WITH A WARRENTY!!! wooooooo can't WAIT
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:48 PM   #4
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ummmmm.... more POWER
What's the AE86's power/weight ? Might be hard to top since it was so light.
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:32 PM   #5
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any new car is always better.... but the question is if it can hold up to our expectations... at least with the people who owned a 86 and know how they handle. 86 is not the king on a straight line and the power numbers of the ft will not make it either but as we go, technology evolves and motors are more reliable. The most direct comparison when benchmarking the two is in cornering... but then again, the amount of money you have to dump on a AE86 to make it meet todays standards in the automotive world is a lot especially when keeping it NA. There might be better bang for the buck cars out there power and handling wise right now compared to the price of a new FT whenever comes out.
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Old 10-15-2009, 03:28 PM   #6
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Not an owner, but the original certainly has looks, "only a drifter could love," so to speak. The new one looks bang up to date.

N.A.
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Old 10-15-2009, 04:21 PM   #7
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For all the strengths the AE86 has, it has an equal, if not longer list of weaknesses. However, most of the weaknesses are what give the corolla it's most endearing qualities.

1.) It's slow, but it was quick for it's time. With about less than 100 hp to the wheels, it gets up to 60mph in somewhere in the 7-8 second range. The gearing, while close together, leaves much to be desired with the jump from 2nd to 3rd, and almost no difference between 4th and 5th. Yet despite this, people love the fact that you can take the engine up to 7500 rpm and listen to it scream around town without breaking most speed limits.

2.) Poor rear suspension design. The live axle is archaic technology seems to be ifted from Conestoga wagons. This makes it somewhat frustrating to drive it in high grip conditions, as the rear end just isn't dynamic enough to be driven as precisely as other cars, yet this is what gave the ae86 the ability to be such an oversteer-y, tail happy monster.

3.) Lightness, and weight distribution. 2300 lbs in stock form, with a close to 50/50 weight distribution makes for an extremely balanced and fun car to drive. You don't know what really "tossing a car around" means until you drive one at an autocross and realize just how nimble the car is (even in stock form) with this potent combination.

4.) Overall a unique driving experience... and not so much amenities. The corolla is built to be a driver's car, there's no question about it. This also means that the interior is quite spartan, and the build quality of many of the luxuries just didn't stand the 25 year test of time. Right now many of my hvac controls don't work, ac went out a long time ago, and it's common for people's headlight control boxes to go wonky, and uncracked dashboards go for about $300 dollars nowadays.

However with all the abovementioned put together, the AE86 is truely a "car that teaches you how to drive." The combination of lightweight, underpowered, oversteer happy characteristics require a learning curve which is both easy to get into, but difficult to master. Drifting them also requires at least 3 to 4 times as much dedication as a 240sx due to the high powerband, low power, and small wheelbase.

Do I want the FT86 to improve on some of these qualities? YES INDEED I do. A better transmission, more power, and a 6th gear is what I really hope they infuse into this car, while still maintaining the unique driver's experience that the corolla is known for.

If I get into it and it feels like i'm driving a 240sx, i'm going to be highly disappointed.
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:21 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Lazy Dolphin View Post
For all the strengths the AE86 has, it has an equal, if not longer list of weaknesses. However, most of the weaknesses are what give the corolla it's most endearing qualities.

1.) It's slow, but it was quick for it's time. With about less than 100 hp to the wheels, it gets up to 60mph in somewhere in the 7-8 second range. The gearing, while close together, leaves much to be desired with the jump from 2nd to 3rd, and almost no difference between 4th and 5th. Yet despite this, people love the fact that you can take the engine up to 7500 rpm and listen to it scream around town without breaking most speed limits.

2.) Poor rear suspension design. The live axle is archaic technology seems to be ifted from Conestoga wagons. This makes it somewhat frustrating to drive it in high grip conditions, as the rear end just isn't dynamic enough to be driven as precisely as other cars, yet this is what gave the ae86 the ability to be such an oversteer-y, tail happy monster.

3.) Lightness, and weight distribution. 2300 lbs in stock form, with a close to 50/50 weight distribution makes for an extremely balanced and fun car to drive. You don't know what really "tossing a car around" means until you drive one at an autocross and realize just how nimble the car is (even in stock form) with this potent combination.

4.) Overall a unique driving experience... and not so much amenities. The corolla is built to be a driver's car, there's no question about it. This also means that the interior is quite spartan, and the build quality of many of the luxuries just didn't stand the 25 year test of time. Right now many of my hvac controls don't work, ac went out a long time ago, and it's common for people's headlight control boxes to go wonky, and uncracked dashboards go for about $300 dollars nowadays.

However with all the abovementioned put together, the AE86 is truely a "car that teaches you how to drive." The combination of lightweight, underpowered, oversteer happy characteristics require a learning curve which is both easy to get into, but difficult to master. Drifting them also requires at least 3 to 4 times as much dedication as a 240sx due to the high powerband, low power, and small wheelbase.

Do I want the FT86 to improve on some of these qualities? YES INDEED I do. A better transmission, more power, and a 6th gear is what I really hope they infuse into this car, while still maintaining the unique driver's experience that the corolla is known for.

If I get into it and it feels like i'm driving a 240sx, i'm going to be highly disappointed.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS, is pretty much a perfect summation for any non-AE86 driver to get a grasp over what has made the 86 such a cult-icon in the spirited driving world.

I've autocrossed and drifted my 86 on numerous occasions as well, and really the main point I always came to was the rear-end. Unforgiving bastard that it is, it actually helped me become a better driver. That, along with its short wheelbase, makes you master weight transfer from one direction to the other with way more precision required than other cars I've driven before. If you're not keen on the throttle and aggressiveness of the turn-in, you will spin that car quick and in a hurry. On the flip side of the coin, it requires total dedication to the slide to pull it off correctly (there's no pansying out, you could say) so if you're not aggressive enough, you'll kill the drift without being able to power back into it.

For me, whats made the AE86 my all-time favorite 'normal production' car is its mixture of many things. The 4A-GE is just so extremely fun to...well, drive! The throttle response is instant, INSTANT, it revv's extremely quickly and freely up to its U.S. Redline of 7600 (and when its up there it just sounds like pure sex). When you mate together the chassis of the 86 with the 4A-GE, you get an extremely fun, and sometimes unforgiving, car to drive, that you would never have thought possible upon first glance of the car.

Summation-
Changes I'd like to see:
A more rigid chassis
IRS
Beefier transmission (as quoted from above)

Things that should stay the same:
Weight
Size
Engine characteristics (has to be, has to be revv happy with a high redline and, even though its a boxer, hopefully a steep powerband with power coming in ~4500-5000 rpm)
The fact that girls will always always call it cute, instead of hot.:p
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:34 PM   #9
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I just want to say a big "thank you" to the two posters above me for those contributions. Like many, I never got a chance to drive the original, but the way you both talk about it is refreshing, and detailed.

Question: how is driving the 86 different from an S13/S14? Because you guys made out like they were quite different...
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Old 10-16-2009, 02:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys View Post
Things that should stay the same:
Weight
Size
Engine characteristics (has to be, has to be revv happy with a high redline and, even though its a boxer, hopefully a steep powerband with power coming in ~4500-5000 rpm)
The fact that girls will always always call it cute, instead of hot.:p
What's the redline on the AE86? I think the pics show the concept with a 7500rpm currently.
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Old 10-16-2009, 01:20 PM   #11
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Lazy Dolphin: How would you compare NA Miata to the AE86? As far as driving characteristics.

I've owned 3 miatas previously and just wanted to know if they can be compared performance wise.
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Old 10-16-2009, 02:35 PM   #12
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I hope they can provide a real drivers car. Even though it might not go fast as some other cars if it can drive as great as a Lotus or close to it I'll be very happy.
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Old 10-16-2009, 05:29 PM   #13
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What's the redline on the AE86? I think the pics show the concept with a 7500rpm currently.
7600 on the U.S. models, 7700 on the J-spec if I'm not mistaken.

Yes, the concept shows 7500, but its just a concept, so I'm still worrying about that.

Answering the S13/S14 question, they do drive completely different compared to the AE86. We're talking way different cars here. The 240's are slightly larger, heavier, have way more low-end torque, a longer wheelbase, and an IRS (the last two make a huge difference in spirited driving). Because of the natural power that the 240's have, sliding the car is just way easier. The longer wheelbase allows you to maintain an easier slide as well during direction changes mid-drift.
Years back, not long after I got my AE86, I drifted around in my friends s13 coupe one night and just couldn't believe the ease at which I could do it, after practicing so much in the AE86. He, on the other hand, wasn't so successful trying to slide the 86. Kept understeering.
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Old 10-16-2009, 05:45 PM   #14
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FIX THE UNDERSTEER... LOL
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