SCCA T4 Build thread

[rice_classic]

This concludes my bucket list and I fulfilled a commitment to my father in the process. It was a 2 year plan that culminated in the achieved target - a Top 10 in a national event.

The car was flawless BTW. Never had the engine/trans/diff out, never skipped a beat, brakes work great, maintenance is low and car is crazy fun to drive. I really thing the 86 is one of the best platforms and T4 really is the ideal class to play with it in.

Totemo and I did "budget builds" with his being more budget oriented than mine, yet finishing better at the Runoffs and consistently having faster lap times. The fact of the matter is that we just raced against people who bring what seems like a F1 budgets to club racing. I'd like to think that we aren't that far off the pace. On the Monday test day the best I could do is 2:50 then Q1: 2:46, Q2: 2:44, Q3: 2:42.0 then during the race a 2:41.0 and I was clearly leaving time on the table.

I'm confident that we if had a bit more time and experience at RA we would have found a way to be comfortably in the 39's. My Lap timer showed low 2:40's several times on the predictive only to have it interrupted by passing, defending or mistakes later in the lap. I'm still 5-7 MPH too slow on T1 entry, 3mph too slow around the carousel and I'm not doing 7 and 13 completely flat and I absolutely should be. Carrying speed really pays dividends at RA.

Finally - we have improved as drivers as a result of this experience that will make us faster at our local tracks. RA really showed me where the gaps in my driving exist, along with my data analysis and the comparisons we did with Nick Leverone.

I'm more excited than ever to start next season. Y'all should get started on your T4 builds!

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I'm more excited than ever to start next season. Y'all should get started on your T4 builds!

Contemplating it!!

[Hades]

Great job to both of you, and an awesome tribute to your dad! You both looked great out there IMO, and the announcer(s) definitely noticed your comeback @rice_classic (albeit a little late). I was very surprised to see you in p8, good racing.


Any future plans? Are you still planning on running in T4, or will you be moving onto something else?

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Contemplating it!!

You're in a special place in the PacNW because you can race with both SCCA and ICSCC in competitive and populated grids. We have a friend who is looking for cheap FRS's to possibly start his T4 build this winter for the Runoffs next year. If there were 4 of us locally - it would be a damn good time and you'd always have someone at the track with spares and help if something goes sideways!

DO IT!

Originally Posted by Hades

Any future plans? Are you still planning on running in T4, or will you be moving onto something else?

I'm quite happy with T4. It's sort of my ideal set of rules and I can run it with the local conference (ICSCC) in CT4 which has very good sized grids. I expect to be running T4 as long as I have the car to do so. What I may do is run it in other events in a trim as close to T4 as possible - like with the LuckyDog series (when it's eligible in 3 years) or in E3 at the 25 hours of Thunderhill.

[rice_classic]

The race broadcasts are now up for anyone interested:

Link to T4:
https://www.scca.com/videos/2039602

[prandelia]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

This concludes my bucket list and I fulfilled a commitment to my father in the process. It was a 2 year plan that culminated in the achieved target - a Top 10 in a national event.

The car was flawless BTW. Never had the engine/trans/diff out, never skipped a beat, brakes work great, maintenance is low and car is crazy fun to drive. I really thing the 86 is one of the best platforms and T4 really is the ideal class to play with it in.

Totemo and I did "budget builds" with his being more budget oriented than mine, yet finishing better at the Runoffs and consistently having faster lap times. The fact of the matter is that we just raced against people who bring what seems like a F1 budgets to club racing. I'd like to think that we aren't that far off the pace. On the Monday test day the best I could do is 2:50 then Q1: 2:46, Q2: 2:44, Q3: 2:42.0 then during the race a 2:41.0 and I was clearly leaving time on the table.

I'm confident that we if had a bit more time and experience at RA we would have found a way to be comfortably in the 39's. My Lap timer showed low 2:40's several times on the predictive only to have it interrupted by passing, defending or mistakes later in the lap. I'm still 5-7 MPH too slow on T1 entry, 3mph too slow around the carousel and I'm not doing 7 and 13 completely flat and I absolutely should be. Carrying speed really pays dividends at RA.

Finally - we have improved as drivers as a result of this experience that will make us faster at our local tracks. RA really showed me where the gaps in my driving exist, along with my data analysis and the comparisons we did with Nick Leverone.

I'm more excited than ever to start next season. Y'all should get started on your T4 builds!

Awesome effort man!

[Turfer]

I found this in Utah. Flew into SLC an drove 871 miles back to Seattle the weekend before last.



I wonder what I should do next.


Link to build thread:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...57#post3393257

[Pat]

Originally Posted by Turfer

I found this in Utah. Flew into SLC an drove 871 miles back to Seattle the weekend before last.



I wonder what I should do next.

Oh boy oh boy oh boy.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

So let's talk about AXLES.

I've seen threads about axle failure being caused by lowering your car. I suspect it may be a false correlation.

As you can tell, my car is very low.

From the ground to the corner of the pinchweld and the body, I'm at 5" ride height in the rear(this is how it's measured per the GCR).


The OEM Axle I pulled off the car (That did NOT fail, but the boot got ripped) shows the Balls, Runner, Cage are entirely fine and only the grooves in the cup show scoring which I attribute to the axle doing a full race after spewing the grease out (lack of lubrication).




The important thing to note about this image is that this CV axle is stock from 2012. Has 87K street miles and a few track days - plus all of last years race season on it. Because it has the scoring on 1 side of the groove, it means I can relube/reboot it and use it on the opposite side as a spare.

The wear patterns show no sign of component failure cause by abuse, excessive axle angle - really only signs of lubrication failure.

I posit that our OEM axles fail when we lower our cars and that it occurs on the driver side inner CV more often - has more to do with heat more than with lowering. I would guess that lowering the car may cause the CV to produce more heat but how much is unknown and I suspect it's pretty small. I've raced FWD cars for over a decade and put CV joints through WAY more angle and abuse than what our CVs experience.

Where's the extra heat?

Lowering a car reduces the airflow that passes by the exhaust piping, the CV joint and the differential. Also, most lowered cars have another thing in common - aftermarket exhaust. With larger piping or different routing that puts the hot pipe even closer to the CV joint. Between the lack of airflow, the heat from the diff and the added heat from the exhaust piping - the OEM grease in the CV cup is overwhelmed, deteriorating and eventually failing to do the job.

Last night I came home with 2 used OEM axles from a pick and pull and proceeded to pull them apart to replace the grease. The grease on the OUTER CV was like new. The INNER CV grease poured out like a 50wt motor oil, was brown and totally deteriorated. I'm glad the cups didn't have any scoring. The axles that came off my car were similar - the grease on the outside joint was way better looking than the inside - I don't even feel need to touch the outside CV grease (but I did, of course).

So how do I overcome the heat?! Well - I kind of don't. Instead I do 2 things: 1) Use grease that handle the heat range and 2) allow the boot to breath and hot air to escape (keep the boot from ballooning).

Grease: I use the Amsoil Polymeric NLGI#2. Either the purple stuff or the gray "off road" stuff that has 5% moly in it.





Breather/vent:



Due to centrifugal forces and the angle of the shaft coming from the inner CV (angled upward), the grease doesn't exit the tube.

I used to run OEM or auto store axles when racing Hondas (unvented) and I always replaced their grease with the Amsoil grease and I never had axle failure from inadequate lubrication again. I should have done this when I converted the FRS into a race car - but here we are.... "learning".

Did the same and the liquified grease came out of the low mile used axle I replaced mine with as well. heat shielding from the exhaust pipe seems like a good idea.

[Matt93SE]

I also wonder if that's intentional. "liquid" grease for the sliding joint so it continually coats the grooves and a thicker grease for the fixed outer joint.
Just a thought.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Matt93SE

I also wonder if that's intentional. "liquid" grease for the sliding joint so it continually coats the grooves and a thicker grease for the fixed outer joint.
Just a thought.

I could see some bright eyed young engineer recommending this and some grizzled production engineer smacking the shit out of him.


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[CrowsFeast]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I could see some bright eyed young engineer recommending this and some grizzled production engineer smacking the shit out of him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As an engineer; this hits home!

"No you dumb shit! The production gets more complicated, and what happens if the axle is installed backwards? What happens if the lube is installed on the wrong side in the factory? You know what; there's too many reasons why that's a terrible idea to even continue; now go away!"

Or conversely:
"No, just... no. Terrible idea."

[Matt93SE]

.... And then the bean counters get involved.. "Wait, you can save how many pennies per car by using cheaper grease in one joint? ...OK do it."

There are literally teams of engineers (interns usually) that scour over cars on the production looking for ways to save money. If they can shorten a fastener length by 5mm and save a penny a piece, they'll make a production change. Do that 50 places in a car and then x 100,000 vehicles? yep. that rookie engineer just paid for his salary.

Not saying that's what's happening here, but I've heard stranger things. What gets me is almost no matter what age the axles come apart, the sliding inner joint almost always contains chocolate milk looking liquid. Nissan, Honda, Toyota/Subaru.. all same that I've seen.

[solidONE]

Seems like a trend. TOB failure are said to be related to crappy grease. The new ones look identical beside a white marking (new grease type). Not hard to imagine they cheaped out there as well. Maybe some greases work better even when liquified compared to the factory one. As long as repacking the CV fixes the problem. Who cares, I guess. lol