Would you prefer that the FRS had a "real" engine?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I'd say almost all drivers of the 86 platform would be fully satisfied if they could morph their cars into a Porsche Cayman.
Gotta pay to play.

Can a Cayman fit 4 mounted tires and a jack in it?

Maybe a Carrera would hit the spot, oh wait, but it has that non-traditional boxer, damn. I know, a Panamera!

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I'd say almost all drivers of the 86 platform would be fully satisfied if they could morph their cars into a Porsche Cayman.

If only they weren't so ugly.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

You're alright kid



I'm young too, my first real car, got it straight out of college at 22 (yes, I am very fortunate and it is now paid off with money from my paycheck) and I always knew I wanted this car because of the experiences you had. I grew up racing in low spec classes because I didn't have the money to afford the expensive engines, winning those races were all about picture perfect smooth driving to maximize 100% of your grip and not ever fall out of the powerband or loose any unnecessary speed. On a good day I could school guys that spent more on their car then we spent on my setup, my brothers setup and our trailer combined, it was a rarity but all the more sweet.

The old addage: "If you can't go fast with 90 horsepower, 900 ain't gonna help ya"

Careful Steve's head will start to swell soon (Oh and BTW the gif is creepy as hell in context of the comment)


I am also young. As long as we keep Humfrz around.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

If only they weren't so ugly.

I like the look of my FR-S over the Cayman, except maybe the latest one. For similar money to what I have spent on my FR-S, I could have picked up a decent Boxster S with some mileage on it. But I am afraid to know the maintenance cost and possible insurance. And as few would come available I'd have to take what I could get.
I don't see the need to switch tires at the track unless they were R compound semi slicks.

[CatDaddysBBQ]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

From reading this forum I would say about 50% can't keep from spinning out with the power it has. Just how many "I wrecked my car" threads do we want to read?

You'll never cure the problem - affordability is the only qualifier to purchase whatever you want, so just like people who wreck corvettes the first month they have it, it happens here too.

I really wanted to buy a used 911 but after driving one, I realized that the suuuper high limits of the car would mean that to have some fun in it would mean lots of speed would need to be involved. I had never owned a rwd car before and assumed that something with low limits would be a better learning tool, so I scrapped that idea and bought the FRS. Love it, great decision.

It's been 2+ years of autoX, sliding in the rain and snow, track days just slowly building my skill up. Now there isn't much I can't do behind the wheel of it.

Now I wish it had more power, because I love it and still don't want to spend Porsche money. I don't even have supercharger/turbo money, lol.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by CatDaddysBBQ

You'll never cure the problem - affordability is the only qualifier to purchase whatever you want, so just like people who wreck corvettes the first month they have it, it happens here too.

I really wanted to buy a used 911 but after driving one, I realized that the suuuper high limits of the car would mean that to have some fun in it would mean lots of speed would need to be involved. I had never owned a rwd car before and assumed that something with low limits would be a better learning tool, so I scrapped that idea and bought the FRS. Love it, great decision.

It's been 2+ years of autoX, sliding in the rain and snow, track days just slowly building my skill up. Now there isn't much I can't do behind the wheel of it.

Now I wish it had more power, because I love it and still don't want to spend Porsche money. I don't even have supercharger/turbo money, lol.

Yep, that is the reasonable and intellectual approach. Unfortunately that is done by the minority of buyers. How about we throw a light 250 to 300HP version that is very affordable on the market and sit back and watch while the people that do not use that approach wreck them. It isn't even an age thing really since the "I spun out" threads cover the entire range of demographics (including me if you include those caused by not driving to weather conditions).
I know I come off as anti power sometimes but that really isn't the case. I know people want more and that is great. I have even shopped around for superchargers myself but remain on the fence. What I am advocating is that people learn to drive it the way it is first and then build the car up as their skill increases (pretty much what you just said). If there was a high HP version on the market this is not what would happen and the result would likely be carnage.

[soulreapersteve]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yep, that is the reasonable and intellectual approach. Unfortunately that is done by the minority of buyers. How about we throw a light 250 to 300HP version that is very affordable on the market and sit back and watch while the people that do not use that approach wreck them. It isn't even an age thing really since the "I spun out" threads cover the entire range of demographics (including me if you include those caused by not driving to weather conditions).
I know I come off as anti power sometimes but that really isn't the case. I know people want more and that is great. I have even shopped around for superchargers myself but remain on the fence. What I am advocating is that people learn to drive it the way it is first and then build the car up as their skill increases (pretty much what you just said). If there was a high HP version on the market this is not what would happen and the result would likely be carnage.

More parts for the rest of us!!!

jk

[rlpaul]

I'm planning an engine swap soon:


On a more serious note, I think the engine accomplishes what this car was designed to do. Put a smile on your face when you rotate around something.

If the car came with 17x9s and sticky rubber, then yes, I'd agree more power would be needed to properly balance the car. But it doesn't. It comes with relatively narrow tires, that break away easily. More power would make the whole car squirrely.

I see a few people talking about the K20 in the RSX-S here. Curb weight for the RSX-S is similar to the Twins. HP output for the K20 in the RSX-S is also similar at 210. A lot of people put the K20 as one of Honda's best motors (behind the F20 obviously).

Now, let's look at a meaningful stat for these two cars: 50-70 acceleration time.
Twin: ~3.6 seconds.
RSX-S: ~3.6 seconds.

Ignoring aftermarket for the moment... what is it that I'm gaining with the 'better' motor here? The K20 powered RSX-S does post slighly better 0-60 and quarter mile times, but neither of these cars were designed for such measurements. Since we're talking about cars designed for going around corners, the 50-70 times are much more important... and completely indistuingishable.

Now, this is not a strictly apples to apples comparison (FWD vs RWD, Ratios, etc.), but these two cars, which are tuned around their engines pretty damned well from the factory, seem pretty much head to head. So, I think that the FA20 is just fine in the Twins.

Would I have preferred something super smooth like the 1UZ was? Absolutely. But I also didn't want to spend 40k plus. And while my foot is pressing down on the accelerator, I'm enjoying myself too much to think about it.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by rlpaul

I see a few people talking about the K20 in the RSX-S here. A lot of people put the K20 as one of Honda's best motors (behind the F20 obviously).

Ignoring aftermarket for the moment... what is it that I'm gaining with the 'better' motor here?

Maybe you dated a lot of girls, but found only 1 or 2 were "keepers", and maybe for reasons you can't really quantify. While an engine isn't the same as human companionship, the metaphor still stands. Just like how someone might be drawn into addiction easily with one drug but not with any others. This whole debate is subjective.

So to answer you question of "what are you gaining", the answer is joy, an entirely subjective emotion based on the individual.

Why would I like the K20 better? I'm not actually sure. Before the engine ever fires up I can say that I like replacing the head gasket better, or adjusting the valves or replacing the spark plugs vs FA20. But I haven't owned a car with a K20 so after that I'm not sure. However I have owned the B16 (with C5 valvetrain), B18C5 and F20C and all were dogs down low but they were still smooth with almost no NVH and when taken to redline they sang the song of sirens, it was intoxicating, inspiring. Their brilliance at high rpms, combined with reliability and being incredibly easy to work on is what many find easy to love.

People wonder why so many folks mention the Hondas but part of the reason is that Honda wasn't just a car company.. they really were an engine company. Honda Motors. The thing they did best was always the engine for a long time. Their entire lineup currently is all uninspiring engines so young folks here may be wondering why so many people have Honda engines on a pedestal.

If you grew into being a gearhead in the 80's and 90's, the Honda engines were in their golden era especially compared to what else was around. The really high output, high RPM and visceral engines were found only in high priced sports cars but Honda had 1.6L engines making 160 HP on pump gas, getting 30+mpg and 240HP out of 2L with a redline of 9k RPM in 1999...on pump gas. They started the variable cam revolution and now every manufacturer has some version of variable valve lift, variable valve timing or both. It was this cutting edge tech that regular folk could enjoy reality that created a lot of fans and spoiled a lot of gearheads.

It's fair to understand why some people were confused how a direct injected 12.5:1 2.0L 4Cyl was only making 200hp. The answer is that the it's not a Honda, or more accurately.. it's not a Honda from the golden era.

Originally Posted by rlpaul

Would I have preferred something super smooth like the 1UZ was?

I wonder why the FA20 has that degree of roughness. It's not particularly smooth at idle, it grumbles quite noticeably at 3k too and I'm not sure why. Factory tune? Engine balance? It seems very smooth above 5k.

[rlpaul]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I wonder why the FA20 has that degree of roughness. It's not particularly smooth at idle, it grumbles quite noticeably at 3k too and I'm not sure why. Factory tune? Engine balance? It seems very smooth above 5k.

My idle wasn't nearly so rough with the OFT Stage 1 tune. Some of the roughness has returned with the E85 tune, but its not as bad as factory. Once its over about 1800 RPM, everything smoothens out.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I'd say almost all drivers of the 86 platform would be fully satisfied if they could morph their cars into a Porsche Cayman.
Gotta pay to play.

I guess I'm the exception. I've considered it, driven it, but in the end, I honestly prefer the performance on a budget. I've experienced the limits of my 86 on a track and it's clearly far above anything I would use on a public highway. This is a great, fun car. Anything more is flash & gaudy, IMHO.

[gravitylover]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I am also young. As long as we keep Humfrz around.

Makes me feel like a pup

You want more power? Spend more on the car. You want more power? Pay more for insurance. You want more power? Pay the economy penalty. You want more power? There's no way it will feel and handle the same because it will be considerably heavier.

I want a car that's meant to be driven. A car that makes me giggle like a little girl when I'm rippin' the twisties, that doesn't cost a mint (to buy and insure) that gets 29+ mpg when I'm rolling at 20+ over the legal limit. So I bought one.

You want more power? There's a Genesis coupe/Mustang/Camaro/Focus RS with your name on it.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by rlpaul

My idle wasn't nearly so rough with the OFT Stage 1 tune. Some of the roughness has returned with the E85 tune, but its not as bad as factory. Once its over about 1800 RPM, everything smoothens out.

Yeah, I wonder how much lackluster isn't even engine related but in the OEM tune.

[1GiantTurtle]