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Old 05-02-2021, 11:29 AM   #2227
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Yes leave with your tail between your legs because I called you out. Fine by me. I'm sick of your personal attacks anyway. I can cite sources and I do, I just don't do it on every post because it's a forum not college all over again. Next time when you call someone out do some research first and attack the subject not the person.

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Who are you directing this to? You are confused.
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Old 05-02-2021, 11:35 AM   #2228
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Let's get one thing striaght though it IS gene editing, just not (well we hope haha) your particular DNA. It does create new proteins and cells by hijacking your genetic process. It may be the spike protein or whatever but that is a set of genes created with your body doing the work, no?

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Old 05-02-2021, 12:07 PM   #2229
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Yeah I know the COVID vax is creating just the spike protein which is not changing your core DNA. I'm just saying it's a similar process that they can actually use.

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A lot of things are like that in genetics actually lol
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Old 05-02-2021, 07:28 PM   #2230
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Let's get one thing striaght though it IS gene editing, just not (well we hope haha) your particular DNA. It does create new proteins and cells by hijacking your genetic process. It may be the spike protein or whatever but that is a set of genes created with your body doing the work, no?
That is not how I understand it, and the difference in our takes is exactly what I was trying to learn about in order to be able to logically, carefully discuss. The strand of mRNA delivered by the vaccine is the specific chunk of the viral RNA that instruct our own cellular machinery to assemble the spike protein out of the spare parts floating around in our cells. The techniques are similar in the sense that they both use types of RNA to do their thing but to compare them is like pointing to a connecting rod in an air compressor and saying it might accidentally turn it into an engine.

Unintended consequences are also a real thing, I read the spike protein article you posted with great interest. I'm keeping my popcorn emoji close by for the follow-up research that falls out of that experiment. Still, let's not conflate CRISPR with the mechanism of these mRNA vaccines.
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Old 05-02-2021, 07:42 PM   #2231
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That is not how I understand it, and the difference in our takes is exactly what I was trying to learn about in order to be able to logically, carefully discuss. The strand of mRNA delivered by the vaccine is the specific chunk of the viral RNA that instruct our own cellular machinery to assemble the spike protein out of the spare parts floating around in our cells. The techniques are similar in the sense that they both use types of RNA to do their thing but to compare them is like pointing to a connecting rod in an air compressor and saying it might accidentally turn it into an engine.

Unintended consequences are also a real thing, I read the spike protein article you posted with great interest. I'm keeping my popcorn emoji close by for the follow-up research that falls out of that experiment. Still, let's not conflate CRISPR with the mechanism of these mRNA vaccines.
Yes this is exactly it. It's essentially an instruction manual for our bodies to combat it.
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Old 05-03-2021, 03:50 AM   #2232
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Well that settles it! Now @p1l0t can get vaccinated.
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Old 05-03-2021, 06:40 AM   #2233
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Well that settles it! Now @p1l0t can get vaccinated.
Yeah, no. WAY too many unknowns and risk factors.

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Old 05-03-2021, 06:47 AM   #2234
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That is not how I understand it, and the difference in our takes is exactly what I was trying to learn about in order to be able to logically, carefully discuss. The strand of mRNA delivered by the vaccine is the specific chunk of the viral RNA that instruct our own cellular machinery to assemble the spike protein out of the spare parts floating around in our cells. The techniques are similar in the sense that they both use types of RNA to do their thing but to compare them is like pointing to a connecting rod in an air compressor and saying it might accidentally turn it into an engine.

Unintended consequences are also a real thing, I read the spike protein article you posted with great interest. I'm keeping my popcorn emoji close by for the follow-up research that falls out of that experiment. Still, let's not conflate CRISPR with the mechanism of these mRNA vaccines.
Every article I read says CRISPR, so maybe that's why? If they are completely unrelated than the media has just meshed them all together.

"The Pfizer and Moderna COVID vaccines are the first vaccines to be activated by mRNA. These vaccines build on the breakthroughs of the gene-editing technology known as CRISPR. This technology is also being used to treat people who have sickle cell anemia, certain cancers, Huntington's disease and congenital blindness, and will likely be used to treat many other diseases in the future. There are many other CRISPR-related breakthroughs on the horizon and a lot of moral and ethical questions to deal with about the editing of the basic element of human life."

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/974751834

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Old 05-03-2021, 08:34 AM   #2235
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Every article I read says CRISPR, so maybe that's why? If they are completely unrelated than the media has just meshed them all together.

"The Pfizer and Moderna COVID vaccines are the first vaccines to be activated by mRNA. These vaccines build on the breakthroughs of the gene-editing technology known as CRISPR. This technology is also being used to treat people who have sickle cell anemia, certain cancers, Huntington's disease and congenital blindness, and will likely be used to treat many other diseases in the future. There are many other CRISPR-related breakthroughs on the horizon and a lot of moral and ethical questions to deal with about the editing of the basic element of human life."

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/974751834

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As an analogy, I think it is like saying that jet engines are built on the breakthroughs of turbocharging technology. It seems that, mRNA vaccines would not be possible without the research CRISPR has allowed, but they are two different things with different purposes.
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Old 05-03-2021, 08:40 AM   #2236
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But we are all on the same page that the mRNA vaccines don't actually do any of this and that the fear of it somehow permanently changing you is ridiculous right?
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Yeah I know the COVID vax is creating just the spike protein which is not changing your core DNA. I'm just saying it's a similar process that they can actually use.

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Yeah, no. WAY too many unknowns and risk factors.

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You will have to forgive the confusion, but it seems like you recognize the lack of risk of changing your core DNA, so what other unknowns and risks are you concerned about?
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Old 05-03-2021, 09:43 AM   #2237
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Yeah, no. WAY too many unknowns and risk factors.

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You're contradicting yourself there. You've posted the potential risks and the understandings of gene therapy and mRNA impressions on the human body. What other risks are you referring to?
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Old 05-03-2021, 09:49 AM   #2238
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A timely, interesting, and foreboding article in the New York Times today. It reflects the unfortunate reality increasing numbers of epidemiologists are saying, that the U.S. is unlikely to ever attain the mythical 'herd immunity' -

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/h...y-vaccine.html

The SARS-CoV-2 virus is the ultimate egalitarian, non-discriminatory equal opportunity. It will happily infect anyone regardless of their beliefs, opinions, prejudices, or politics. The horrendous tragedy unfolding right now in India is stark warning for what happens with the deadly combination of 1) arrogance/hubris/stupidity of declaring victory and reopening too soon, plus 2) a low vaccination rate, plus 3) emergence of variants (which is driven by the prior two).

There seems to be a definite element of seasonality to the pandemic. Infection rates are thankfully declining in much (but not all of) the country, and this summer will likely have tolerable safety in many places. But the way this country is going, it's probably not a question of 'if' but 'when' we experience something similar to what India is suffering through. And we'll have only ourselves, and some of our imbecilic state leaderships (cough Ron DeSantis cough) to blame.
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Old 05-03-2021, 10:08 AM   #2239
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You will have to forgive the confusion, but it seems like you recognize the lack of risk of changing your core DNA, so what other unknowns and risks are you concerned about?
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You're contradicting yourself there. You've posted the potential risks and the understandings of gene therapy and mRNA impressions on the human body. What other risks are you referring to?
Well the spike alone causes lung damage for one. But also I know it's supposedly only to create that spike protein but how do we really know it will do that perfect? Like did we inspect every molecule in the viral one-by-one? The side-effects some people have experienced seem worse than virus (for a healthy young person). I know one guy whose whole arm swelled up like a softball. Like there is something going on in there. Regardless of whether or not it immediately effect the core DNA, hijacking the genetic process may have implications that the science just isn't in on yet. I'm sorry but I just want to see more data. Like 20 years worth of data. How about this, I will get the vaccine... in like 20 years... assuming there is no correlation between the vaccines and some bad medical issues.

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Old 05-03-2021, 10:21 AM   #2240
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Well the spike alone causes lung damage for one. But also I know it's supposedly only to create that spike protein but how do we really know it will do that perfect? Like did we inspect every molecule in the viral one-by-one? The side-effects some people have experienced seem worse than virus (for a healthy young person). I know one guy whose whole arm swelled up like a softball. Like there is something going on in there. Regardless of whether or not it immediately effect the core DNA, hijacking the genetic process may have implications that the science just isn't in on yet. I'm sorry but I just want to see more data. Like 20 years worth of data. How about this, I will get the vaccine... in like 20 years... assuming there is no correlation between the vaccines and some bad medical issues.

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The spike protein is simply a base. It's how we figure out how to tweak it. Again, that's the whole point of a vaccine is the take it and use it as a blueprint to ensure our bodies react to it properly without dying. If it was such a risk to cause lung damage out of the MILLIONS of vaccines distributed we'd have heard about it by now. It's not some insane long-term dormant killer like CFCs or Agent Orange. Lol it's not a sleeper agent in the body just waiting to be activated by a command to kill.

Lmao 20 years worth of data? Dude, NOTHING, has that much data before it's put into play. Literally nothing. Let alone in the medical realm. Saying that kind of stuff is a BS way of trying to justify your lack of intent to get it. Yet you say you will, X amount of weeks/months/years from whenever just to appease the masses.

Fine, we get it, you're not going to get the vaccine. Period. Just say it. You have no intent to get it whatsoever. That is what I'm reading my man.
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