GR86 vs Tuned GT86 vs Porsche 944

[Dirty Harry]

Enjoy!

[Spuds]

Conclusions seem reasonable, but they didn't take into account depreciation of the 2014. No, it's still not worth it to buy older and build to chase the new one. But if you already have one, it swings the math just a bit.

I'm having a hard time believing the Dyno claim though lol.

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Conclusions seem reasonable, but they didn't take into account depreciation of the 2014. No, it's still not worth it to buy older and build to chase the new one. But if you already have one, it swings the math just a bit.

I'm having a hard time believing the Dyno claim though lol.

Yeah I’d love to see a parts list of the mods etc. I’ve never heard of a NA 1st gen reach that power. I don’t think they even mentioned E85, that would have to be a given considering the power figures. I do like what the owner of the 1st gen has done though, great build.

[TommyW]

I love my Gen1 I have it just how I want it but damn saw a blue Gen2 with proper wheels and slight drop on the freeway yesterday and man it was a beautiful car.

[LRNAD90]

My curiosity is similar to this comparison, but I'm looking at it from the standpoint of FI cars that have been built well. If you can buy a say a 2105/2016 or up first gen FRS/BRZ with decent mileage, professional FI hardware and tune, and supporting mods for under 30K (there are a couple on the classifieds now), is it a better option?

Styling may be the deciding factor alone for some, but honestly I still like the 1st gen styling as much or more. I'm probably in the minority, but the only angle I really like the 2nd gen significantly better is rear 3/4 view..

Of course the question will always be in the back of my mind, will the engine blow-up or will there be serious drivability issues that you will have to deal with? I don't know, I just know I'm torn for one..

[Teseo]

Originally Posted by LRNAD90

My curiosity is similar to this comparison, but I'm looking at it from the standpoint of FI cars that have been built well. If you can buy a say a 2105/2016 or up first gen FRS/BRZ with decent mileage, professional FI hardware and tune, and supporting mods for under 30K (there are a couple on the classifieds now), is it a better option?

Styling may be the deciding factor alone for some, but honestly I still like the 1st gen styling as much or more. I'm probably in the minority, but the only angle I really like the 2nd gen significantly better is rear 3/4 view..

Of course the question will always be in the back of my mind, will the engine blow-up or will there be serious drivability issues that you will have to deal with? I don't know, I just know I'm torn for one..

For price point doesn't make sense to me. FA20 will be more affordable in the long run due to more parts available. But for what my local dealerships are asking now (40k-49k) I would rather buy a Camaro ss for same price.

[falcon_wizard]

Originally Posted by LRNAD90

My curiosity is similar to this comparison, but I'm looking at it from the standpoint of FI cars that have been built well. If you can buy a say a 2105/2016 or up first gen FRS/BRZ with decent mileage, professional FI hardware and tune, and supporting mods for under 30K (there are a couple on the classifieds now), is it a better option?

Styling may be the deciding factor alone for some, but honestly I still like the 1st gen styling as much or more. I'm probably in the minority, but the only angle I really like the 2nd gen significantly better is rear 3/4 view..

Of course the question will always be in the back of my mind, will the engine blow-up or will there be serious drivability issues that you will have to deal with? I don't know, I just know I'm torn for one..

I’d offer that If you found a first gen that was FI’d and tuned professionally for reliability (not max power), with the right supporting mods, well maintained and driven responsibility for what it is, then sure it would be well worth considering for someone who values performance first over the latest thing or newer gadgets. There is simply no equivalent car on the market to a 300whp twin when considering lightness, performance, rwd, handling and practicality combined, even with much pricier cars. The trade-off will be that it will require a bit more care and maintenance, especially if tracked. But I can’t think if any driveability issues if the build was done for daily driving, unless the build or tune was badly done, or more of a track car build, which would have trade-offs on the street.

Hope this helps!

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by LRNAD90

Of course the question will always be in the back of my mind, will the engine blow-up or will there be serious drivability issues that you will have to deal with? I don't know, I just know I'm torn for one..

Why not buy a first gen and get a header and a tune installed, it’ll still be cheaper than a second gen and a step closer to it in power, though I do concede the 2nd gen will still be quicker.

After test driving the 2nd gen, I liked the extra power, but the looks and the steering feel weren’t as good as the first gen IMO. So I got a header with a custom dyno tune installed on my first gen and couldn’t be happier.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...9&postcount=34

[LRNAD90]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

Why not buy a first gen and get a header and a tune installed, it’ll still be cheaper than a second gen and a step closer to it in power, though I do concede the 2nd gen will still be quicker.

After test driving the first gen, I liked the extra power, but the looks and the steering feel weren’t as good as the first gen IMO. So I got a header with a custom dyno tune installed on my first gen and couldn’t be happier.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...9&postcount=34

Cause I really like the Edelbrock SC? I'm also a car guy, so a modified car with better performance is always going to be attractive, even if its possibly not the best choice (does that make sense?)..

And with the Edelbrock's CARB exemption may be easier to work with the emissions regs than a header, oddly enough..

And yeah, it seems like it takes FI to make a Gen1 hang with a Gen 2 acceleration wise..

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by LRNAD90

And yeah, it seems like it takes FI to make a Gen1 hang with a Gen 2 acceleration wise..

I thought the supercharged 1st gen would be a bit further ahead than that, impressive.

[PulsarBeeerz]

The videos aren’t too representative.tbh The Gen1 driver appears to have started in the wrong gear on the first roll. He easily walked away on the 2nd short pull. The next video is of a Vortec SC car with a wide body and big heavy hot boy wheels which slow it a lot. What I’m getting at is the difference acceleration wise from a typical FI Gen1 to a stock Gen2 is similar to the difference of a stock Gen2 to Gen1. The fact that there are Gen2s in the 230whp+ range on 91/93 and FBO is what is impressive!

[TRS]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

Enjoy!

Whaaat? 30gran only for TRD parts?! I understand the idea in getting "factory tuning parts", but actually 30k?

Thats pretty much the full cost of my LS swap made in Germany (where it's mich mure expensive to this). The cars Im competing with are not 89' Porsche 944's, they are Porsche 911 992's.

Also interesting: a Gen1 was brand new, fully loaded about 32k USD, maybe 36k for some Special Editions. Thats not too far from the named US price back in the day. The Gen2, thats what I learned in the video, is at 34k USD in the US. But current price range arround here in Germany is arround 45k USD. A week ago I was talking to a guy who had an offer as high as 50k USD.

A reasonable gen1 as basis can be bought for arround 20k. Depending on what youre planing a rod nocked one can be bought for arround 12k. There is quite a bit of fun you can do to a Gen1 for a 25-30k budget....

Sure, the video is aiming the US market, I understand. But also there I think it's quiet possible to upgrade a reasonable used gen1 using the budget differnce to gen2 in a way, that it easily outperforms the factory Gen2. Though, in Europe the situation is even clearer concerning that math.

For that Last vid, sorry, I cannot believe much of that. Even If the Gen2 is ridiculous high in factory power tolerance: If the Gen1, which with added compressor is arround the same weight as a factory Gen2, is having actually 320whp, it would totally smoke the factory Gen2.
I drove against turboed gen1, SC Gen1 and factory Gen2 with my LS swapped Gen1. The Gen2 clearly was the car to be controlled the easiest.

If we are talking about a Gen1 with only a simple Vortex bolt on, making 280 flywheel hp, this slight advantage as seen in the video is plausible. But the Story that this Gen2 raced a 320whp FI Gen1 that close is just a ferry tale in my bock.

Though, the factory power of the Gen2 is quiet good and a big improvement over factory gen1, no question about that. But this beeing said, this comparison is a bit laggy in my eyes, since it's a comparison to one of the most disapointing engines in a sportscar of the last decade. With other words I would consider the FA24 simply an engine which performs as expected.

[CedN]

Originally Posted by TRS

Whaaat? 30gran only for TRD parts?! I understand the idea in getting "factory tuning parts", but actually 30k?

Thats pretty much the full cost of my LS swap made in Germany (where it's mich mure expensive to this). The cars Im competing with are not 89' Porsche 944's, they are Porsche 911 992's.

Also interesting: a Gen1 was brand new, fully loaded about 32k USD, maybe 36k for some Special Editions. Thats not too far from the named US price back in the day. The Gen2, thats what I learned in the video, is at 34k USD in the US. But current price range arround here in Germany is arround 45k USD. A week ago I was talking to a guy who had an offer as high as 50k USD.

A reasonable gen1 as basis can be bought for arround 20k. Depending on what youre planing a rod nocked one can be bought for arround 12k. There is quite a bit of fun you can do to a Gen1 for a 25-30k budget....

Sure, the video is aiming the US market, I understand. But also there I think it's quiet possible to upgrade a reasonable used gen1 using the budget differnce to gen2 in a way, that it easily outperforms the factory Gen2. Though, in Europe the situation is even clearer concerning that math.

For that Last vid, sorry, I cannot believe much of that. Even If the Gen2 is ridiculous high in factory power tolerance: If the Gen1, which with added compressor is arround the same weight as a factory Gen2, is having actually 320whp, it would totally smoke the factory Gen2.
I drove against turboed gen1, SC Gen1 and factory Gen2 with my LS swapped Gen1. The Gen2 clearly was the car to be controlled the easiest.

If we are talking about a Gen1 with only a simple Vortex bolt on, making 280 flywheel hp, this slight advantage as seen in the video is plausible. But the Story that this Gen2 raced a 320whp FI Gen1 that close is just a ferry tale in my bock.

Though, the factory power of the Gen2 is quiet good and a big improvement over factory gen1, no question about that. But this beeing said, this comparison is a bit laggy in my eyes, since it's a comparison to one of the most disapointing engines in a sportscar of the last decade. With other words I would consider the FA24 simply an engine which performs as expected.

Due to the weak swedish crown they are available for 38.9 k eur on the showroom floor over here, but please dont take ours. I need them here when i will buy one 2nd hand later though i think residuals will be strong.

[Lucky21]

Originally Posted by LRNAD90

My curiosity is similar to this comparison, but I'm looking at it from the standpoint of FI cars that have been built well. If you can buy a say a 2105/2016 or up first gen FRS/BRZ with decent mileage, professional FI hardware and tune, and supporting mods for under 30K (there are a couple on the classifieds now), is it a better option?

Styling may be the deciding factor alone for some, but honestly I still like the 1st gen styling as much or more. I'm probably in the minority, but the only angle I really like the 2nd gen significantly better is rear 3/4 view..

Of course the question will always be in the back of my mind, will the engine blow-up or will there be serious drivability issues that you will have to deal with? I don't know, I just know I'm torn for one..

Going FI in first gen can be done affordably and reliably to an extent. What I did was I just utilized the stock fuel pump and injector and maximized it resulting in the 280-300whp power range which is more than enough if you just wanted a bump in power. Retaining the stock fueling system saves you money in parts and the temptation to chase more power.