What am I damaging/wearing out when I don't properly shift. - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

cat94 · 11-11-2016, 12:25 PM

I've been curious about what I'm wearing out/potentially damaging in these cases:

(1) Upshift: rpm too high and drops when clutch is re-engaged

(2) Upshift: rpm too low and rises when clutch is re-engaged

(3) Downshift: rev match too much, rpm high

(4) Downshift: rev match not enough, rpm low

Is this mainly wearing out my clutch? This is my first MT so I'm prepared to (and would rather) wear out my clutch a little faster rather than the transmission.

Also, between cases 1 & 2 and 3 & 4, which one is less damaging to do while learning?

In any case, the car will jerk/shudder unless I slow down for a 1/2 a second at the biting point when releasing the clutch.

strat61caster · 11-11-2016, 12:35 PM

1. Clutch friction plate
2. Clutch friction plate
3. Clutch friction plate
4. Clutch friction plate

A shock may take a toll on the gears, but cars are built stout enough to survive minor mistakes, go ahead and 'slip the clutch' a bit, that's what it's there for and it will take quite a bit of abuse before needing a replacement. Practice will make it better.

I don't think I felt smooth until I had nearly 30k miles under my belt, and I still jerk the car around on occasion by not being perfect with my timing. I also give the car a nice hard launch with fat sticky tires about a dozen times a month and everything seems perfectly happy to keep doing it.

Tcoat · 11-11-2016, 12:42 PM

I would not worry about any of those things. From what you say I would describe the actions as driving a MT. Like Strat said it will come with practice and unless you are actually burning the clutch (and you will have no doubt if you are) then the wear you are inflicting may mean the clutch lasts 99,999 miles instead of 100,000. Contrary to popular opinion clutches are not fragile. Just don't let your RPMs down so low that you start lugging the engine all the time or then you do risk some serious damage.

MJones_RB · 11-11-2016, 12:57 PM

Today's modern transmissions are pretty bulletproof. In the days before syncros, you could really do some damage by mis-shifting. If you're on the freeway and try to go from 5th to 4th instead of 6th, you'll get some rude noises for sure.

Tcoat · 11-11-2016, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJones_RB

Today's modern transmissions are pretty bulletproof. In the days before syncros, you could really do some damage by mis-shifting. If you're on the freeway and try to go from 5th to 4th instead of 6th, you'll get some rude noises for sure.

Ya but most of the time there were only 3 or 4 gears anyway so it was harder to screw up.

turtlefeeder · 11-11-2016, 01:20 PM

Stick to basic and if you occasionally spirit drive than YouTube some tricks lol should be enough room for error without completely destroying you clutch or transmission. I let my bro and dad practice quiet a few time and 32k miles later I still have stock clutch 😊 will be replaced asap since I went FI and the clutch is starting to slip

FR-Sky · 11-11-2016, 01:22 PM

As long as your clutch is OEM, and you dont abuse it everyday, every stop light, and red line all the time.
I think it would last you for a long time.

Source : ft86club.com

mazeroni · 11-11-2016, 01:35 PM

Been driving manuals for about 5 years. I still don't know how to shift correctly. Given all the threads about shifting on ft86, the endless arguments, I am clearly in the majority.

*shrug* I am not often smooth. I slip the clutch a lot to try and be smooth. I get impatient and slam shift gears occasionally. I do a poor job rev matching causing the car to buck a lot. I probably shift too fast when the trans is cold. The synchros are most certainly "worn in" with obvious signs of excess wear. I probably push in the clutch too fast which is the cause of that horrible driveline lash. I like to skip gears. I love engine breaking. So on and so forth.

What is this wearing out? EVERYTHING!

But nothing has gone kaput or feels "off" (at 40K miles now), I'll just plead ignorance if the day comes that I request warranty work on anything transmission related.

The only thing I won't do is a high rpm clutch dump.

tl;dr Every moving part is a wear item. Stop overthinking things!

Good luck!

cat94 · 11-11-2016, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strat61caster

1. Clutch friction plate
2. Clutch friction plate
3. Clutch friction plate
4. Clutch friction plate

I see, I won't worry too much about that then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtlefeeder

Stick to basic and if you occasionally spirit drive than YouTube some tricks lol should be enough room for error without completely destroying you clutch or transmission. I let my bro and dad practice quiet a few time and 32k miles later I still have stock clutch 😊 will be replaced asap since I went FI and the clutch is starting to slip

That's definitely good to know. I guess I'm just thinking a bit too much about it.

Tcoat · 11-11-2016, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazeroni

Been driving manuals for about 5 years. I still don't know how to shift correctly. Given all the threads about shifting on ft86, the endless arguments, I am clearly in the majority.

*shrug* I am not often smooth. I slip the clutch a lot to try and be smooth. I get impatient and slam shift gears occasionally. I do a poor job rev matching causing the car to buck a lot. I probably shift too fast when the trans is cold. The synchros are most certainly "worn in" with obvious signs of excess wear. I probably push in the clutch too fast which is the cause of that horrible driveline lash. I like to skip gears. I love engine breaking. So on and so forth.

What is this wearing out? EVERYTHING!

But nothing has gone kaput or feels "off" (at 40K miles now), I'll just plead ignorance if the day comes that I request warranty work on anything transmission related.

The only thing I won't do is a high rpm clutch dump.

tl;dr Every moving part is a wear item. Stop overthinking things!

Good luck!

Been driving them for 45 and still screw up every now and then. Anybody that says they don't is either a liar or has a selective memory.

gramicci101 · 11-11-2016, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazeroni

I probably push in the clutch too fast...

Wait, is this really a thing you can do?

Tcoat · 11-11-2016, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Wait, is this really a thing you can do?

I was gonna let that slide...

turtlefeeder · 11-11-2016, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Wait, is this really a thing you can do?

Uh superman could destroy the clutch by stepping on it vigorously lol

Tcoat · 11-11-2016, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtlefeeder

Uh superman could destroy the clutch by stepping on it vigorously lol

Superman drives an AT!

11-11-2016, 12:25 PM	#1
cat94 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Drives: '17 86 Location: CA Posts: 198 Thanks: 91 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	What am I damaging/wearing out when I don't properly shift. I've been curious about what I'm wearing out/potentially damaging in these cases: (1) Upshift: rpm too high and drops when clutch is re-engaged (2) Upshift: rpm too low and rises when clutch is re-engaged (3) Downshift: rev match too much, rpm high (4) Downshift: rev match not enough, rpm low Is this mainly wearing out my clutch? This is my first MT so I'm prepared to (and would rather) wear out my clutch a little faster rather than the transmission. Also, between cases 1 & 2 and 3 & 4, which one is less damaging to do while learning? In any case, the car will jerk/shudder unless I slow down for a 1/2 a second at the biting point when releasing the clutch.

11-11-2016, 12:42 PM	#3
Tcoat Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Drives: 2020 Hakone Location: London, Ont Posts: 69,845 Thanks: 61,656 Thanked 108,283 Times in 46,456 Posts Mentioned: 2495 Post(s) Tagged: 50 Thread(s)	I would not worry about any of those things. From what you say I would describe the actions as driving a MT. Like Strat said it will come with practice and unless you are actually burning the clutch (and you will have no doubt if you are) then the wear you are inflicting may mean the clutch lasts 99,999 miles instead of 100,000. Contrary to popular opinion clutches are not fragile. Just don't let your RPMs down so low that you start lugging the engine all the time or then you do risk some serious damage. __________________ Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.

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11-11-2016, 01:20 PM	#6
turtlefeeder Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Drives: UltraMFrS Location: OC Posts: 701 Thanks: 204 Thanked 135 Times in 100 Posts Mentioned: 3 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Stick to basic and if you occasionally spirit drive than YouTube some tricks lol should be enough room for error without completely destroying you clutch or transmission. I let my bro and dad practice quiet a few time and 32k miles later I still have stock clutch 😊 will be replaced asap since I went FI and the clutch is starting to slip

11-11-2016, 01:22 PM	#7
FR-Sky Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Drives: 2013 FR-S 10 series [755] Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,189 Thanks: 385 Thanked 390 Times in 264 Posts Mentioned: 7 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	As long as your clutch is OEM, and you dont abuse it everyday, every stop light, and red line all the time. I think it would last you for a long time. Source : ft86club.com

11-11-2016, 01:35 PM	#8
mazeroni Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S Series 10 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 1,116 Thanks: 600 Thanked 1,017 Times in 512 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Been driving manuals for about 5 years. I still don't know how to shift correctly. Given all the threads about shifting on ft86, the endless arguments, I am clearly in the majority. shrug I am not often smooth. I slip the clutch a lot to try and be smooth. I get impatient and slam shift gears occasionally. I do a poor job rev matching causing the car to buck a lot. I probably shift too fast when the trans is cold. The synchros are most certainly "worn in" with obvious signs of excess wear. I probably push in the clutch too fast which is the cause of that horrible driveline lash. I like to skip gears. I love engine breaking. So on and so forth. What is this wearing out? EVERYTHING! But nothing has gone kaput or feels "off" (at 40K miles now), I'll just plead ignorance if the day comes that I request warranty work on anything transmission related. The only thing I won't do is a high rpm clutch dump. tl;dr Every moving part is a wear item. Stop overthinking things! Good luck!

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