8 Car Brands Falling Behind.....Scion on the list

[regal]

Originally Posted by R3d

I hope your talking only looks cuz quality wise nothing is lower then kia except hyunday XD

When I bought my FRS I was glad it was a Scion because Scion consistently ranked very high for quality, even higher than Toyota.

[SigmaHyperion]

Originally Posted by R3d

I hope your talking only looks cuz quality wise nothing is lower then kia except hyunday XD

Way to be stuck in the '90s there.

Kia and Hyundai have both been releasing vehicles with some of the best initial and long-term quality measures for quite some time now. While everyone's rankings fluctuate a lot thesedays to the tightness of the competition, Kia and Hyundai are consistently in the top third of all automakers.

Scion on the other hand, has been steadily moving down the ranks, from the very top just a few years ago, to bottoming out at DEAD LAST in the latest JDP IQS. The same one put Kia and Hyundai near the top, in the company of Porsche, Lexus, Infiniti, Audi, Acura, Mercedes, and Cadillac.

But reality is that the difference between "Best" and "Worst" thesedays is so small as to nearly be a statistical non-consideration. For example, the difference between "Best" and "Worst" in the above JDP study, was 0.8 problems per car. So, statistically speaking, a Scion at "Worst" is going to have almost 1 more problem reported in the first 90 days of ownership than a Porsche at "Best". A whole 1 problem more -- and that "problem" can be anything at all, including the most minor of complaint like a squeaking wiper.

Everybody makes a good car today. Everybody. Differences between them are all so small that automakers move from nearly the top to nearly the bottom just based on normal variation between years.

[Anthony]

I've been beating the absolute fuck out of my Tiburon for 7 years now. Intentional 360's on dirt roads, long road trips with it squatting under all the weight, taught 6 people how to drive a manual with it, taught myself how to drive a manual with it, too many standing starts to count, topped out too many times to count, driven from Mississippi to Canada with no break longer than how long it takes me to pee, hauled an 8' trailer slammed full of sod, hauled my R6 to every track day, bogged down in mud, driven into a body of water up to the intake, had the exhaust tips completely submerged in salt water launching/loading my jet ski, and a whole bunch of other crazy shit I'm either not mentioning on purpose or probably forgot.

Here's the list of problems it's had:

BCM went bad last year - $100 fix
MAF sensor went bad last month - $30 fix

I bought an FR-S so I could gut it and keep the good ol' Hyundai as my daily for many more years to come.

[CAMBAM_6]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's already in front of FR-S. What the hell difference does it make? Especially if Scion only made good sports cars, like I listed. That's like saying you're mad about "Hyundai" being in front of "Genesis" because in 1992, Hyundai made a bunch of doodoo ass cars. Times and companies change.

If Scion only meant GT86, Supra, and MR2, and Toyota only meant Camry, Corolla, and Avalon, well then you could keep your "Toyota" and I'd be totally content with my "Scion". Let the business stiffs squabble over marketing shenanigans. We should be in favor of a positive future for driving enthusiasts, regardless if it means a new badass car being released with previously-looked-down-upon branding. If that's what it takes, it's still better than where we've been that last decade with no RWD sports cars at an easily affordable price.

That being said, "Scion Supra" does sound absolutely retarded.

Sir don't argue, as you can see with the scion frs it makes a huge difference. We get a watered down version of the 86 with no other trims to choose from but the BRZ. What do you think would happen to the Supra and MR2?????? Plus they will change the name of the Supra and MR2 to a couple letters like all the other scions.......AND your forgetting one thing, in the rest of the world there is no Lexus or Scion so there all "Toyotas"....Ill keep my Toyota all day Sir..that is all

[regal]

Originally Posted by SigmaHyperion

Way to be stuck in the '90s there.

Kia and Hyundai have both been releasing vehicles with some of the best initial and long-term quality measures for quite some time now. While everyone's rankings fluctuate a lot thesedays to the tightness of the competition, Kia and Hyundai are consistently in the top third of all automakers.

Scion on the other hand, has been steadily moving down the ranks, from the very top just a few years ago, to bottoming out at DEAD LAST in the latest JDP IQS. The same one put Kia and Hyundai near the top, in the company of Porsche, Lexus, Infiniti, Audi, Acura, Mercedes, and Cadillac.

But reality is that the difference between "Best" and "Worst" thesedays is so small as to nearly be a statistical non-consideration. For example, the difference between "Best" and "Worst" in the above JDP study, was 0.8 problems per car. So, statistically speaking, a Scion at "Worst" is going to have almost 1 more problem reported in the first 90 days of ownership than a Porsche at "Best". A whole 1 problem more -- and that "problem" can be anything at all, including the most minor of complaint like a squeaking wiper.

Everybody makes a good car today. Everybody. Differences between them are all so small that automakers move from nearly the top to nearly the bottom just based on normal variation between years.

Scion was top ranking right until they started selling a Subaru.

We have no way of knowing that everyone makes good cars today. Toyota's and Honda's aren't over-engineered the way they were in the 90's. Subaru's of the 2000's are proving to be very problematic in the used car market. As far as Hyundai's, have you ever worked on one? Do 200k mile Genesis's exist ? How are DI Accents holding up over 100k miles ?

The number of 90's Toyotas still on the road is mind-blowing to a typical new car buyer.

There are a lot of unknowns buying new cars today with DI and all the tuning for emissions/café mpg.

[CAMBAM_6]

Originally Posted by regal

When I bought my FRS I was glad it was a Scion because Scion consistently ranked very high for quality, even higher than Toyota.

Can't tell if Troll or serious

[thill]

Originally Posted by regal

Scion was top ranking right until they started selling a Subaru.

We have no way of knowing that everyone makes good cars today. Toyota's and Honda's aren't over-engineered the way they were in the 90's. Subaru's of the 2000's are proving to be very problematic in the used car market. As far as Hyundai's, have you ever worked on one? Do 200k mile Genesis's exist ? How are DI Accents holding up over 100k miles ?

The number of 90's Toyotas still on the road is mind-blowing to a typical new car buyer.

There are a lot of unknowns buying new cars today with DI and all the tuning for emissions/café mpg.

It is easy to have top ranking JD Powers results when you sell like 4 cars that are stale, the majority of which have not been significantly changed since 2007.

JD Powers is joke. I never factor them in when buying a car. I find Consumer Reports more useful and they ranked the twins as a top pick for 2013.

[regal]

Originally Posted by CAMBAM_6

Can't tell if Troll or serious

Serious the brand had a stellar rep, they only sold cars with proven reliable Toyota drivetrains that generally had a great history. The Tc is one of the most reliable cars on the road.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by CAMBAM_6

We get a watered down version of the 86 with no other trims to choose from but the BRZ.

It's not watered down, it has less bullshit . The glass is half full.

Originally Posted by CAMBAM_6

What do you think would happen to the Supra and MR2??????

Hopefully the same thing, or better yet, even more watered down. I like my sports cars with extra sport, hold the entertainment system.

Originally Posted by CAMBAM_6

Plus they will change the name of the Supra and MR2 to a couple letters like all the other scions...

Yeah, I know. There would never literally be a "Scion MR2," but in my hypothetical scenario, they could make a small, RWD, 1.8L, high revving, mid engined, two-seater. And they could make a GT86-R or S or XLR8R or whatever the hell, and it just be an FR-S platform with a turboed I6.

Originally Posted by CAMBAM_6

AND your forgetting one thing, in the rest of the world there is no Lexus or Scion so there all "Toyotas"....Ill keep my Toyota all day Sir..that is all

Touché.

[thill]

This explains pretty clearly why you really should not put much stock in JD Powers IQS:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-study-feature

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by thill

This explains pretty clearly why you really should not put much stock in JD Powers IQS:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-study-feature

Most car owners barely know how to drive. I wouldn't listen to their opinions on how good a car is.

For example: treating brake dust colour as a defect is truly ridiculous. However, many, if not most, drivers have no idea how to perform an emergency stop let alone recognize and avoid brake fade. Such drivers get no benefit from high performance brakes and literally don't know what's wrong as they stuff their Impala up the backside of a Navigator.

Our Subaru/Toyotas neatly sidestep this problem by making brake dust coloured wheels fashionable!

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Oh yeah, definitely not. And I think you were spot on with your Rs, Ss, Xs guess.

Maybe FRT, for Front Rear Turbo, but that just looks too much like FaRT. I respect when they name cars based on their layouts, as opposed to XRs, which is completely made up to fit into the United States' X-TREME! Marketing!!! It's what plants crave!!!

Love the Idiocracy reference

Originally Posted by CAMBAM_6

Sir don't argue, as you can see with the scion frs it makes a huge difference. We get a watered down version of the 86 with no other trims to choose from but the BRZ. What do you think would happen to the Supra and MR2?????? Plus they will change the name of the Supra and MR2 to a couple letters like all the other scions.......AND your forgetting one thing, in the rest of the world there is no Lexus or Scion so there all "Toyotas"....Ill keep my Toyota all day Sir..that is all

Might want to do some fact checking on that. Lexus is sold as a Lexus everywhere now. I agree more options on the FR-S would have been nice, but "watered down". Didn't realize trim pieces affected the cars performance.

[regal]

Originally Posted by thill

This explains pretty clearly why you really should not put much stock in JD Powers IQS:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-study-feature

http://www.truedelta.com/Scion-FR-S/problems-1096/2013

About the worst engine in the industry according to this places rankings, and its not all crickets if you join you can see all the complete engine failure reports. With over a year of history Consumer Reports won't be ranking the twins as high this year I'm pretty sure of that.

[SigmaHyperion]

Scion was top ranking right until they started selling a Subaru.

Consumer Reports now ranks Subaru as #1. (if one wants to trust them over JDP or anyone else)

It has nothing to do with that.

It has everything to do with the fact that a single car, in its first model-year, makes up an extremely large percentage of their sales. When your volumes are so low that a single model makes up such a huge part of your sales, your overall ranking is going to tank in its first model-year. Any first-year car is going to have quality issues, particularly in regards to JDP IQS.

Scion will climb the ranks again. The point was that everyone's so close to each other that it doesn't really matter anymore. Just releasing a new model, and not one that's known for being particularly bad, is enough to make Scion slip to dead last.

Sure, no one can see the future. No one can know if the car they're buying today will last 1 year, 5 years, or be one of the rare Lemons. All we can use, if we want to use "data" at all, is averages compiled by third parties.

JD Powers is joke. I never factor them in when buying a car. I find Consumer Reports more useful and they ranked the twins as a top pick for 2013.

They're all a joke really. Even moreso as the statistical variation between makers and models becomes so small that they're almost equal, while the various outfits who 'track' reliability continue to try to make them appear more different than they are (why CR has changed its reporting methodology to be more and more vague every year so as to be almost useless now). But they're the only objective measure that exists; at least for widespread use. I prefer TrueDelta personally, but they often have very small sample sizes. And I wouldn't put much stock on first-year reported issues anyways.